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A mathematician who finds poetry in math and math in poetry

93 points by ColinWright 3y ago

tiborsaas 3y ago
They edited the title since: "The Mathematician Who Finds the Poetry in Math and the Math in Poetry" And I agree it's better :)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
iamcurious 3y ago
I liked the bit about the hobbit, even if it was a bit out of the blue. those interested in the link between math and literature might be interested in the link between narratives and linear logic.
- joloooo 3y ago
  Can you recommend any resources to learn more about this link?
  - iamcurious 3y ago
    On the surface: The world would be premises and stories would be proofs. Linear Logic for Non-Linear Storytelling by Anne-Gwenn Bosser and Marc Cavazza and Ronan Champagnat has an example. Then generating proofs means generating valid stories. Linear logic is tough though, it is a logic that admits contradiction so straightaway most logicians are clueless in how to handle it.
    - kbrkbr 3y ago
      I do not think the last sentence is an adequate description of what linear logic is, or how it's used and understood. It is interesting in itself, I admit that. But I don't see how it would admit contradiction, or how logicians are clueless how to handle it. It is in fact well understood, and used in many places, e.g. computer science [1,2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_logic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_logic [2] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-linear/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-linear/
zupatol 3y ago
It's not very surprising to find math in Perec's work, he deliberately put it there.
wakasaka 3y ago
Not sure if Decimas poetry could be considered an example of this. Personally I always believed everything is related to everything.
tromp 3y ago
In the video she mentions there are only 17 different wallpaper designs. As it turns out, there are only 17 possible planar symmetry groups [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group
- MailleQuiMaille 3y ago
  As above, so below ;)
richrichie 3y ago
Math poetry is a pretty active genre.
- martincmartin 3y ago
  What examples would you suggest?
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    Degenerate poetry: There once was a man from Verdun Or, from https://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/quux.poem https://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/quux.poem : "...and so the line connecting the points Ga and Gb in gradient space, which correspond to the planes A and B in image space, is the set of points representing positions of a plane see-sawing around the line of intersection between A and B..." Now I see; then I saw; The planes of a cube have a linear law. The endpoints of lines in the gradient space Show where the see-sawing planes fall into place. Macrakis, sitting beside me, half-asleep: "COFFEE!" Caffeine doesn't help me composing this verse. It only awakes me; my thoughts all disperse. One thinks better dozing, collapsed in a heap; Why else are most students in classes asleep? "...the lines in gradient space are perpendicular to the lines in image space. This doesn't provide enough constraints, however. Additional equations may be derived from the intensity information. One can get one or more solutions for a trihedral vertex. If the vertex has more than three planes, then there are more constraints than necessary, and one may have to resort to least squares..." Alone, the geometry isn't enough: You also require intensity stuff. We get enough data if points are tri-planed, While four leave the gradients over-constrained. I count the following as more mathematical than physical; maybe I'm just a sucker for double dactyls — YMMV: > [f] I once read that space has three dimensions because orbits aren't stable in 4-space. I often have wondered in What kind of orbit a Planet proceeds in a Tesseract space? Multidimensional, Hyperelliptical, Dizzying spacemen in Trans-solar chase.
    - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
      From Verdun or Nantucket?
peter_d_sherman 3y ago
>"Thousands of years ago in India, poets were trying to think about the possible meters. In Sanskrit poetry, you have long and short syllables. Long is twice as long as short. If you want to work out how many there are that take a length of time of three, you can have short, short, short, or long, short, or short, long. There are three ways to make three. There are five ways to make a length-four phrase. And there are eight ways to make a length-five phrase. This sequence you’re getting is one where every term is the sum of the previous two. You exactly reproduce what we nowadays call the Fibonacci sequence. But this was centuries before Fibonacci." Related: Ambuda: "Building the world's largest Sanskrit library": https://ambuda.org/ https://ambuda.org/
dang 3y ago
Recent and related: Mathematical journeys into fictional worlds (2021) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576156 - March 2024 (10 comments)
mvaliente2001 3y ago
Math and Physics equations are full of beauty capable of transmit the same joy as poetry. The main difficulty is that they require more study. For me, looking at Maxwell equations is a source of pleasure. Also, after improving my understanding of the Laplacian, I came to appreciate the heat equation.
coolThingsFirst 3y ago
Hart flexes from her home office
gxonatano 3y ago
There are lots of mathematicians, and statisticians and the like, who become interested in literary analysis. They may even go on to publish articles and books with their findings, applying mathematical or computational techniques to the study of literature. The problem is, they're usually only interested in their own insights, and shy away from the existing conversation that surrounds a given work of literature. These researchers seem to be unaware that literary scholars have been thinking about their same problems for years. Their bibliographies often contain hardly a single work of literary criticism. You wouldn't try to write a book about physics, or mathematics, without consulting a physicist or a mathematician, but somehow these scholars think that you can write a book about literature without being in dialogue with literary scholarship.

93 points by ColinWright 3y ago

They edited the title since: "The Mathematician Who Finds the Poetry in Math and the Math in Poetry" And I agree it's better :)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

iamcurious 3y ago

I liked the bit about the hobbit, even if it was a bit out of the blue. those interested in the link between math and literature might be interested in the link between narratives and linear logic.

joloooo 3y ago
Can you recommend any resources to learn more about this link?
- iamcurious 3y ago
  On the surface: The world would be premises and stories would be proofs. Linear Logic for Non-Linear Storytelling by Anne-Gwenn Bosser and Marc Cavazza and Ronan Champagnat has an example. Then generating proofs means generating valid stories. Linear logic is tough though, it is a logic that admits contradiction so straightaway most logicians are clueless in how to handle it.
  - kbrkbr 3y ago
    I do not think the last sentence is an adequate description of what linear logic is, or how it's used and understood. It is interesting in itself, I admit that. But I don't see how it would admit contradiction, or how logicians are clueless how to handle it. It is in fact well understood, and used in many places, e.g. computer science [1,2] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_logic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_logic [2] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-linear/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-linear/

zupatol 3y ago

It's not very surprising to find math in Perec's work, he deliberately put it there.

wakasaka 3y ago

Not sure if Decimas poetry could be considered an example of this. Personally I always believed everything is related to everything.

tromp 3y ago

In the video she mentions there are only 17 different wallpaper designs. As it turns out, there are only 17 possible planar symmetry groups [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallpaper_group

MailleQuiMaille 3y ago
As above, so below ;)

richrichie 3y ago

Math poetry is a pretty active genre.

martincmartin 3y ago
What examples would you suggest?
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  Degenerate poetry: There once was a man from Verdun Or, from https://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/quux.poem https://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/quux.poem : "...and so the line connecting the points Ga and Gb in gradient space, which correspond to the planes A and B in image space, is the set of points representing positions of a plane see-sawing around the line of intersection between A and B..." Now I see; then I saw; The planes of a cube have a linear law. The endpoints of lines in the gradient space Show where the see-sawing planes fall into place. Macrakis, sitting beside me, half-asleep: "COFFEE!" Caffeine doesn't help me composing this verse. It only awakes me; my thoughts all disperse. One thinks better dozing, collapsed in a heap; Why else are most students in classes asleep? "...the lines in gradient space are perpendicular to the lines in image space. This doesn't provide enough constraints, however. Additional equations may be derived from the intensity information. One can get one or more solutions for a trihedral vertex. If the vertex has more than three planes, then there are more constraints than necessary, and one may have to resort to least squares..." Alone, the geometry isn't enough: You also require intensity stuff. We get enough data if points are tri-planed, While four leave the gradients over-constrained. I count the following as more mathematical than physical; maybe I'm just a sucker for double dactyls — YMMV: > [f] I once read that space has three dimensions because orbits aren't stable in 4-space. I often have wondered in What kind of orbit a Planet proceeds in a Tesseract space? Multidimensional, Hyperelliptical, Dizzying spacemen in Trans-solar chase.
  - SomeoneFromCA 3y ago
    From Verdun or Nantucket?

peter_d_sherman 3y ago

>"Thousands of years ago in India, poets were trying to think about the possible meters. In Sanskrit poetry, you have long and short syllables. Long is twice as long as short. If you want to work out how many there are that take a length of time of three, you can have short, short, short, or long, short, or short, long. There are three ways to make three. There are five ways to make a length-four phrase. And there are eight ways to make a length-five phrase. This sequence you’re getting is one where every term is the sum of the previous two. You exactly reproduce what we nowadays call the Fibonacci sequence. But this was centuries before Fibonacci." Related: Ambuda: "Building the world's largest Sanskrit library": https://ambuda.org/ https://ambuda.org/

dang 3y ago

Recent and related: Mathematical journeys into fictional worlds (2021) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39576156 - March 2024 (10 comments)

mvaliente2001 3y ago

Math and Physics equations are full of beauty capable of transmit the same joy as poetry. The main difficulty is that they require more study. For me, looking at Maxwell equations is a source of pleasure. Also, after improving my understanding of the Laplacian, I came to appreciate the heat equation.

coolThingsFirst 3y ago

Hart flexes from her home office

gxonatano 3y ago

There are lots of mathematicians, and statisticians and the like, who become interested in literary analysis. They may even go on to publish articles and books with their findings, applying mathematical or computational techniques to the study of literature. The problem is, they're usually only interested in their own insights, and shy away from the existing conversation that surrounds a given work of literature. These researchers seem to be unaware that literary scholars have been thinking about their same problems for years. Their bibliographies often contain hardly a single work of literary criticism. You wouldn't try to write a book about physics, or mathematics, without consulting a physicist or a mathematician, but somehow these scholars think that you can write a book about literature without being in dialogue with literary scholarship.