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> Should all women (and possibly people with non-western names, who can run into similar issues) work under fake names? Some people have such a low opinion o

> Should all women (and possibly people with non-western names, who can run into similar issues) work under fake names? Some people have such a low opinion of women in tech they invent entire fake AI avatars and legends [0] rather than deal with the real thing [1]. [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/backlash-over-fake-female-speakers-shuts-down-developer-conference/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/backlash-over-fa... [1] https://cybershow.uk/episodes.php?id=22 https://cybershow.uk/episodes.php?id=22

theultdev 3y ago
That seems more like a grift of the environment promoting women. It's easier to control sockpuppets and you don't have to pay them. I don't think that person cared one way or another about women, they were just taking advantage of the environment. They would have faked male speakers had it benefitted them. (not condoning, just noting my perception)
Manuel_D 3y ago
This wasn't because they had low opinion of women in tech. It's because some other speakers refused to attend if there weren't a specific percentage of women speakers but the organizers couldn't find enough to meet that quota. Still scummy to fake women speakers, but the motivation was not simply a low opinion of women. > Hanselman confirmed that he was "duped" by seeing the bill including at least one fake female speaker. He also confirmed that speakers like him have rules for participating in conferences, including only joining inclusive speaker lineups.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  > This wasn't because they had low opinion of women in tech. It's because some other speakers refused to attend if there weren't a specific percentage of women speakers You raise a good, fair objection. Maybe I shouldn't have said "low opinion". I don't know these chaps and what their opinion is. "Quotas" and suchlike certainly do those of us that advocate for diversity - but confront reality - a great disservice. > Still scummy to fake women speakers, but the motivation was not simply a low opinion of women. What I think happened (and maybe watch our video, please because Mercy and Helen say things a little bit different - and why pay attention to my words, written by a man, when you can see and hear what the women actually have to say): > but the organizers couldn't find enough to meet that quota. Where I disagree is over "the organisers couldn't find enough". No way, they could have "found enough". There's no shortage of smart, confident women who have plenty to say about working in digital tech. I've been in that situation myself as a conference organiser and had to work extra hard to convince them that they would be taken seriously and given equal voice - and could say what they want. I strongly suspect what these organisers couldn't find were women who would say the things they wanted.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    > I strongly suspect what these organisers couldn't find were women who would say the things they wanted. Agreed. Plus you don't have to pay sockpuppets. He was making them "cancel" their talk, but he had then met the "women quota" so all good. Honestly it's the affirmative action culture that led to this. People will take advantage of things like that. Like a man that gets last in weight lifting amongst their male peers, "transitions", then blows out the #1 spot amongst women.
    - ambichook 3y ago
      "yes i turned my life upside down, opened myself up to discrimination, and took a cocktail of drugs that will actively make me dysphoric and also cause my muscles to atrophy, just so i can beat women in sport, despite the fact that the hormones i have been on for the last year have actually normalised my performance with women" do people seriously think people transition to win at sports?
      - theultdev 3y ago
        Sweet summer child. See Laurel Hubbard... But yes, it's an incredibly petty thing to do, hard to imagine, similar to creating fake women speakers. And no, hormone therapy does not "normalize" you with women. Your bone structure and many other factors are at play. Hormone therapy doesn't magically reverse these things. You can literally look at the guy and see the difference between the women he's taking advantage of.
        ambichook 3y ago
        a trans woman who had been on HRT for 5 years managed to qualify for and come second in an event, and later won some others, yes that is most certainly evidence that she had an unfair advantage /s she was also in the ballpark with the other competitors, not the sort of far and away difference that you make it out to be.
        3y ago

theultdev 3y ago

That seems more like a grift of the environment promoting women. It's easier to control sockpuppets and you don't have to pay them. I don't think that person cared one way or another about women, they were just taking advantage of the environment. They would have faked male speakers had it benefitted them. (not condoning, just noting my perception)

Manuel_D 3y ago

This wasn't because they had low opinion of women in tech. It's because some other speakers refused to attend if there weren't a specific percentage of women speakers but the organizers couldn't find enough to meet that quota. Still scummy to fake women speakers, but the motivation was not simply a low opinion of women. > Hanselman confirmed that he was "duped" by seeing the bill including at least one fake female speaker. He also confirmed that speakers like him have rules for participating in conferences, including only joining inclusive speaker lineups.

nonrandomstring 3y ago
> This wasn't because they had low opinion of women in tech. It's because some other speakers refused to attend if there weren't a specific percentage of women speakers You raise a good, fair objection. Maybe I shouldn't have said "low opinion". I don't know these chaps and what their opinion is. "Quotas" and suchlike certainly do those of us that advocate for diversity - but confront reality - a great disservice. > Still scummy to fake women speakers, but the motivation was not simply a low opinion of women. What I think happened (and maybe watch our video, please because Mercy and Helen say things a little bit different - and why pay attention to my words, written by a man, when you can see and hear what the women actually have to say): > but the organizers couldn't find enough to meet that quota. Where I disagree is over "the organisers couldn't find enough". No way, they could have "found enough". There's no shortage of smart, confident women who have plenty to say about working in digital tech. I've been in that situation myself as a conference organiser and had to work extra hard to convince them that they would be taken seriously and given equal voice - and could say what they want. I strongly suspect what these organisers couldn't find were women who would say the things they wanted.
- theultdev 3y ago
  > I strongly suspect what these organisers couldn't find were women who would say the things they wanted. Agreed. Plus you don't have to pay sockpuppets. He was making them "cancel" their talk, but he had then met the "women quota" so all good. Honestly it's the affirmative action culture that led to this. People will take advantage of things like that. Like a man that gets last in weight lifting amongst their male peers, "transitions", then blows out the #1 spot amongst women.
  - ambichook 3y ago
    "yes i turned my life upside down, opened myself up to discrimination, and took a cocktail of drugs that will actively make me dysphoric and also cause my muscles to atrophy, just so i can beat women in sport, despite the fact that the hormones i have been on for the last year have actually normalised my performance with women" do people seriously think people transition to win at sports?
    - theultdev 3y ago
      Sweet summer child. See Laurel Hubbard... But yes, it's an incredibly petty thing to do, hard to imagine, similar to creating fake women speakers. And no, hormone therapy does not "normalize" you with women. Your bone structure and many other factors are at play. Hormone therapy doesn't magically reverse these things. You can literally look at the guy and see the difference between the women he's taking advantage of.
      - ambichook 3y ago
        a trans woman who had been on HRT for 5 years managed to qualify for and come second in an event, and later won some others, yes that is most certainly evidence that she had an unfair advantage /s she was also in the ballpark with the other competitors, not the sort of far and away difference that you make it out to be.
        3y ago