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> Hrm. We're not progressing on that front so maybe it's time to stop. I thing we don't have to progress on anything immediately to discuss productively. You p

> Hrm. We're not progressing on that front so maybe it's time to stop. I thing we don't have to progress on anything immediately to discuss productively. You put your ideas forward, I put mine. I get yours to ponder on them later, (and I assume) so do you. I think I agreed that my ideas may are colored due to what I have gone through, and accepted to revise them. I'll see where I can go after taking that step. :) > if you have criterias X, Y and Z -- and it just so happens that those X, Y and Z are actually things that fix problems that exist quite often out there. This is not "touting". Yes, and I agree that Rust is good for fixing these X, Y, Z. However, as I said what I have gone through is different. Just hold that thought. > Forgive the generalization but you do seem to belong to a group of people who get annoyed if others praise something and if they hear about it often. I don't mind being generalized. We're humans after all. However, your generalization is wrong, sadly. I don't get annoyed by praising or popularity. I get annoyed by being pushed to accept an idea without thinking on it. What I have gone through is akin to being surrounded by people chanting something, and I expected (or even bullied) to chant the same thing without understanding what I'm buying into. I prefer to do my own research and make my own decisions. Trying to take my freedom from me annoys me with no end. For the record, I have a Vagrant VM which installs a turnkey Rust development environment (IOW, I started to dig into it), yet I put it on ice until gccrs is released, and learnt Go instead, because it proved to be a better tool for what I was trying to build. > I understand, yet IMO you should make up your own mind and not get irritated just because something gains popularity. Built on previous generalization, just passing if you don't mind. > You are surely aware that is not enough unless you actively go out of your way to check how other people do things, right? But I won't pursue this further, I believe we're in agreement and only the degree of stuff is under question from my side. We're in total agreement. I'm not a team powerhouse by working solo. I just try to do my best, but I can't build my missing parts without a team, and I'm willing to do that if I work in a team. I like developing tools, but I'm not the person who upends team dynamics because who wants to be the only one. I like the craft itself, and will happily adapt to the environment I work in (sans the bullying part, ofc). > And one of them should IMO be: "when you need something that you'd write in C/C++ and it is not highly specialized (meaning no good Rust library support) then try writing it in Rust". I understand and I agree, but I just can't port a library developed by a team of specialized researchers and hand-optimized for a ton of hardware/processor architectures [0] by myself. I can only write what I'm planning to develop in Rust, maybe develop a couple of libraries along the way, but please don't ask me to license them with MIT. That's not gonna happen. I'm not a GPLv3 zealot, and contribute to MIT projects, but my projects are for the users of these projects. Not for the developers who want to build upon them and forget to add credits because deadlines. > You didn't have to show me, appreciate it. Just wanted to share for the feedback, not as a proof, because I value comments and feedback, that's all :) > ... talking about `if isInputFromPipe(logger)...` in `initFlags` That's not a part of the code I'm very proud of, but it's not a hot path, is relatively self contained, and it works. > But that kind of stems from Golang's imperative nature and not everyone wants to write code in mostly FP style. I get that. I'm coming from C64 era. I think imperative (or how computer thinks), and write my code. Starting FP with a Lisp is on my roadmap, and the notes are in my backpack, but that road is a bit bumpy right now. :) > It's important to disagree productively. :) Certainly! :) [0]: https://eigen.tuxfamily.org/index.php?title=Main_Page https://eigen.tuxfamily.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

pdimitar 3y ago
> I get annoyed by being pushed to accept an idea without thinking on it. What I have gone through is akin to being surrounded by people chanting something, and I expected (or even bullied) to chant the same thing without understanding what I'm buying into. Yeah, happened to all of us. Sorry that it happened to you. My discussion with you was sitting on a much more reasonable ground, I believe: namely assess the thing (in this case thing == Rust) by its own merits and niche. And you said you are open to that so my work here is done, so to speak. yet I put it on ice until gccrs is released, and learnt Go instead, because it proved to be a better tool for what I was trying to build. On your point 1 here I'll only say that software licenses don't bother me at all. As long as the license does not say "you cannot use that OPEN source software in your CLOSED work or else you owe me" then I'll use it and not give it a second thought. Morality and legalese concerns in software is something I just don't want to deal with for now, likely forever too. As for your point 2... actually I did the same. I do love Rust but I had a number of mini projects, commercial and for my own use, where I really wanted to get something off the ground in literal minutes. Golang served me there better than Rust. When I get a little more free time I plan to achieve the same friction-less experience with Rust because it is not like that out of the box but I know for a fact that it can be made to be like that. > I understand and I agree, but I just can't port a library developed by a team of specialized researchers and hand-optimized for a ton of hardware/processor architectures [0] by myself. I understand. We touched on this already, suffice to summarize that in this case you're fully aware that your assessment is also a bit niche, you know that for less specialized work Rust can be a fantastic fit, you are open to try it and get intimate with it in the future, and as I mentioned already -- that's all I wanted to achieve when discussing with you. Thanks for being a good discussion partner. ^_^

pdimitar 3y ago

> I get annoyed by being pushed to accept an idea without thinking on it. What I have gone through is akin to being surrounded by people chanting something, and I expected (or even bullied) to chant the same thing without understanding what I'm buying into. Yeah, happened to all of us. Sorry that it happened to you. My discussion with you was sitting on a much more reasonable ground, I believe: namely assess the thing (in this case thing == Rust) by its own merits and niche. And you said you are open to that so my work here is done, so to speak. yet I put it on ice until gccrs is released, and learnt Go instead, because it proved to be a better tool for what I was trying to build. On your point 1 here I'll only say that software licenses don't bother me at all. As long as the license does not say "you cannot use that OPEN source software in your CLOSED work or else you owe me" then I'll use it and not give it a second thought. Morality and legalese concerns in software is something I just don't want to deal with for now, likely forever too. As for your point 2... actually I did the same. I do love Rust but I had a number of mini projects, commercial and for my own use, where I really wanted to get something off the ground in literal minutes. Golang served me there better than Rust. When I get a little more free time I plan to achieve the same friction-less experience with Rust because it is not like that out of the box but I know for a fact that it can be made to be like that. > I understand and I agree, but I just can't port a library developed by a team of specialized researchers and hand-optimized for a ton of hardware/processor architectures [0] by myself. I understand. We touched on this already, suffice to summarize that in this case you're fully aware that your assessment is also a bit niche, you know that for less specialized work Rust can be a fantastic fit, you are open to try it and get intimate with it in the future, and as I mentioned already -- that's all I wanted to achieve when discussing with you. Thanks for being a good discussion partner. ^_^