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> But according to this article, it seems that those should be disregarded. Depending on the context, yes. You are coming into this from a perspective of "lis

> But according to this article, it seems that those should be disregarded. Depending on the context, yes. You are coming into this from a perspective of "listening to fix" and not "listening to understand" which are two different things. Even if your intent is to help people by listening, you first might want to get the entire picture and understand the entire context. Because if you don't, what change do you really have of meaningfully helping someone?

germandiago 3y ago
In order to listen to fix first you must understand... I mean that the kind of "I hear you", "yes, blabla" seems nice but it is the same thing anyone would tell you. Someone that does not know you maybe would react the same. For me it is better (as in valuable) to get a: "because you fail to see you are doing it wrong? Don't you see that..." or something that tells you why you are being dumb and you should not be sad. For example: I am sad bc... the reason is important. If it is bc your father passed away there is nothing I can help with but if you just lost your job or did not get the marks you wanted, there is good advice to make people feel better and try to suggest to analyze what went wrong instead of saying: "oh poor you, I feel you" which does not help except to make that person feel better at that very moment and nothing else. That "negative" information is more valuable to correct something. If ehat you have is always people who just listen and let it go, you will end up without any helpful information and maybe even thinking that the problem is elsewhere.
- creesch 3y ago
  > you just lost your job or did not get the marks you wanted, there is good advice to make people feel better and try to suggest to analyze what went wrong Your assumption here is that people did something "wrong". This isn't always the case, you certainly can't decide that without actually having listened to them. Other than that, all I can say is that you seem to be jumping from one extreme end to the other and by doing so missing the important middle ground by a huge margin. I'd even go as far as saying that you also did that while reading this article. Because it feels like to me that you didn't read it with the intention of understanding it, but the intention to have an opinion on it.
  - germandiago 3y ago
    My point actually is not even abt wrong. It was just an example. The point is that saying "yes, yes I listen" without further feedback can be more counterproductive than not. There is nothing write about being sad probably. But giving advice about how to rationalize your feelings can be helpful.
- squigz 3y ago
  > In order to listen to fix first you must understand... You're missing the point - it's about whether you should "listen to fix" at all. In my experience, when most people are "sharing", they don't want you to solve their problems - chances are they know everything you're about to say anyway - and if they did, they'll more specifically ask for your help What people want is just someone to listen, to feel heard. This relates to the oft-repeated advice of not trying to solve your partner's daily problems, but just to respond with "That sucks". It's also why responding with your own experiences all the time doesn't make you a great listener > which does not help except to make that person feel better at that very moment and nothing else. Not sure why you're implying this is some sort of bad thing.
  - germandiago 3y ago
    True, they might know, but a push is probably what they need. Listening is disjoint from giving advice. In fact you need to first listen to be able to give advice. And yes, some people just want to be listened. I am not against it as such I usually talk actionable stuff more than not actually but I understand that some people might not be like me. Yes, my last quote there means that making someone feel just better for a moment while keeping something for which there could be something about is probably suboptimal. Idk if bad, just suboptimal. The honest feedback in a conversation is critical to solve our own problems. Sometimes I found out things noone would have ever told me by people that really appreciate me and that is a good thing that improves me, not a bad thing that should make me angry or annoyed. I have the feeling that we are doing something wrong with this kind of advice. The generation that comes 20 years after me or 30 (I am 40) are mentally way softer than before and I think this kind of behavior promoted by the article promotes this kind of feedback. The biggest difference I have seen compared to Europe from living in Vietnam (for 12 years) is that they have a much stronger mind. They have better and worse things, as every culture. But I relate this kind of advice as a fundamental mistake. We need positive listening, we need things like that, sure. But we also need to deal with frustration, with failure and with negative feedback. Those things teach us to deal with fristration, to naturalize it and to be able to deal with it as well. So my advice would be more, without being a therapist, train your kids as Toni Nadal trained Rafa Nadal. Hard minds are ready for good and bad times. Soft minds only for the good ones. So I would be wary of promoting that kind of "everything's cool let's be positive never mind". I'd rather promote "be careful, this is the problem, can we deal with it?" If so, how? If not, we cannot win all the time which is also a lesson that humbles us.

germandiago 3y ago

In order to listen to fix first you must understand... I mean that the kind of "I hear you", "yes, blabla" seems nice but it is the same thing anyone would tell you. Someone that does not know you maybe would react the same. For me it is better (as in valuable) to get a: "because you fail to see you are doing it wrong? Don't you see that..." or something that tells you why you are being dumb and you should not be sad. For example: I am sad bc... the reason is important. If it is bc your father passed away there is nothing I can help with but if you just lost your job or did not get the marks you wanted, there is good advice to make people feel better and try to suggest to analyze what went wrong instead of saying: "oh poor you, I feel you" which does not help except to make that person feel better at that very moment and nothing else. That "negative" information is more valuable to correct something. If ehat you have is always people who just listen and let it go, you will end up without any helpful information and maybe even thinking that the problem is elsewhere.

creesch 3y ago
> you just lost your job or did not get the marks you wanted, there is good advice to make people feel better and try to suggest to analyze what went wrong Your assumption here is that people did something "wrong". This isn't always the case, you certainly can't decide that without actually having listened to them. Other than that, all I can say is that you seem to be jumping from one extreme end to the other and by doing so missing the important middle ground by a huge margin. I'd even go as far as saying that you also did that while reading this article. Because it feels like to me that you didn't read it with the intention of understanding it, but the intention to have an opinion on it.
- germandiago 3y ago
  My point actually is not even abt wrong. It was just an example. The point is that saying "yes, yes I listen" without further feedback can be more counterproductive than not. There is nothing write about being sad probably. But giving advice about how to rationalize your feelings can be helpful.
squigz 3y ago
> In order to listen to fix first you must understand... You're missing the point - it's about whether you should "listen to fix" at all. In my experience, when most people are "sharing", they don't want you to solve their problems - chances are they know everything you're about to say anyway - and if they did, they'll more specifically ask for your help What people want is just someone to listen, to feel heard. This relates to the oft-repeated advice of not trying to solve your partner's daily problems, but just to respond with "That sucks". It's also why responding with your own experiences all the time doesn't make you a great listener > which does not help except to make that person feel better at that very moment and nothing else. Not sure why you're implying this is some sort of bad thing.
- germandiago 3y ago
  True, they might know, but a push is probably what they need. Listening is disjoint from giving advice. In fact you need to first listen to be able to give advice. And yes, some people just want to be listened. I am not against it as such I usually talk actionable stuff more than not actually but I understand that some people might not be like me. Yes, my last quote there means that making someone feel just better for a moment while keeping something for which there could be something about is probably suboptimal. Idk if bad, just suboptimal. The honest feedback in a conversation is critical to solve our own problems. Sometimes I found out things noone would have ever told me by people that really appreciate me and that is a good thing that improves me, not a bad thing that should make me angry or annoyed. I have the feeling that we are doing something wrong with this kind of advice. The generation that comes 20 years after me or 30 (I am 40) are mentally way softer than before and I think this kind of behavior promoted by the article promotes this kind of feedback. The biggest difference I have seen compared to Europe from living in Vietnam (for 12 years) is that they have a much stronger mind. They have better and worse things, as every culture. But I relate this kind of advice as a fundamental mistake. We need positive listening, we need things like that, sure. But we also need to deal with frustration, with failure and with negative feedback. Those things teach us to deal with fristration, to naturalize it and to be able to deal with it as well. So my advice would be more, without being a therapist, train your kids as Toni Nadal trained Rafa Nadal. Hard minds are ready for good and bad times. Soft minds only for the good ones. So I would be wary of promoting that kind of "everything's cool let's be positive never mind". I'd rather promote "be careful, this is the problem, can we deal with it?" If so, how? If not, we cannot win all the time which is also a lesson that humbles us.