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>Office has shit food. Shit coffee. In an open office, there’s a high risk of catching a virus from your co-worker. People love to tap your shoulder, interrupt

>Office has shit food. Shit coffee. In an open office, there’s a high risk of catching a virus from your co-worker. People love to tap your shoulder, interrupt your thought process (clearly I’m in the zone, asshole), and ask you mundane shit that could have been resolved over IM. It's not that complicated to bring food from home for lunch, grab something on the way in, or go out for lunch -- I doubt you're working in a food desert after all. Ditto for coffee and even coffee shops. Catching a virus thing, sure that's a real concern. For personal experience though I've found I've gotten sick more often since COVID and 100% WFH than when I used to work out of the office 2-3 days a week, including public transit. As far as interruptions, a lot of offices have conference rooms engineers can use whenever they want. Even one person rooms or the newer telephone booths. Usually all soundproofed. You don't even have to tell coworkers which one you're working from and you can switch rooms throughout the day. I guess that's not feasible in like a 10-20 person office but I've been in offices for up to 75-100 people and it wasn't that difficult. Most of the problems you've cited have relatively simple solutions in my opinion.

mjevans 3y ago
Yes, as they described: Working from Home. It solves all of these problems and has many other benefits mentioned elsewhere in this discourse.
giantrobot 3y ago
> It's not that complicated to bring food from home for lunch, grab something on the way in, or go out for lunch -- I doubt you're working in a food desert after all. Or, try to stay with me here, I'm just at my fucking house and I can pop into the kitchen whenever I want to get food. I can even take my laptop into the kitchen and be on a meeting while I'm cooking or eating. I can make fresh coffee whenever I want. If I'm lazy I can order DoorDash and hot food just shows up at my door. The idea conference rooms are places to get work done is ludicrous. Conference rooms are perennially booked, often overbooked, and at best you might get an hour of uninterrupted work done in one. Woe be unto the poor engineer that's found in a conference room by a middle manager. They'll get no end of shit for *reasons*. Offices have only gotten worse over the past few decades. If my work doesn't involve physically touching hardware (all my shit deploys to The Cloud) there's no reason I can't work from my house. I've been working remote for several years now and it's been amazing for my mental health and productivity. Not to mention I've saved thousands of dollars a year not having to commute.
- spike021 3y ago
  >Or, try to stay with me here, I'm just at my fucking house and I can pop into the kitchen whenever I want to get food. I can even take my laptop into the kitchen and be on a meeting while I'm cooking or eating. Obviously those defeat the point of the article and the very subjective stated problems that have very simple solutions. >The idea conference rooms are places to get work done is ludicrous. Conference rooms are perennially booked, often overbooked, and at best you might get an hour of uninterrupted work done in one. Woe be unto the poor engineer that's found in a conference room by a middle manager. They'll get no end of shit for reasons. I never had this problem across jobs at three different companies, working out of multiple locations that each had quite varying differences in office culture. Maybe it's a company-specific work culture thing?
caskstrength 3y ago
I'm not sure I'm following. You are proposing to bring the lunch from home and hide in some conference room the whole day, but why go back to the office at all then?
- spike021 3y ago
  I never said all day. I said you can use different ones at different times of the day, basically _as needed_, like if you need an hour or two to get very heads down with Slack closed and no "taps on the shoulder" as the OP mentioned.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
deathanatos 3y ago
> Ditto for coffee and even coffee shops. … you understand 2 coffee shop lattes are like the same price as the entire bag of ground beans, right? But the bag will make 10-15 times the coffee; the price difference is phenomenal. Its only saving grace is that my budget is dominated by rent, really. There are cheaper shops, yes … but the coffee is terrible. I can do far better myself. > As far as interruptions, a lot of offices have conference rooms engineers can use whenever they want If any significant number of people even attempted this, it'd be ended immediately. There's not enough to go around. > the newer telephone booths. Usually all soundproofed. … so lug keyboard and monitor into a phone booth, and proceed to hog it for the day? > I guess that's not feasible in like a 10-20 person office but I've been in offices for up to 75-100 people and it wasn't that difficult. It's not feasible in any office of any size that I've ever been in, because the resources you're talking about are can only simultaneously serve like 2–5% of the office's population at a time.
- spike021 3y ago
  >… you understand 2 coffee shop lattes are like the same price as the entire bag of ground beans, right? But the bag will make 10-15 times the coffee; the price difference is phenomenal. Its only saving grace is that my budget is dominated by rent, really And you can't bring in a small bag of beans/pre-ground beans from your favorite roaster? Every office I've worked in had a coffee maker or espresso machine or both, and if you prefer to brew with say a Hario V60 it's not that big a deal to keep one at your desk and just bring a bag of beans lol. You don't even have to lug it to work every day with all the easy ways to order beans these days. And if you're buying your own bags and using those beans you're not spending any more than you would otherwise. This is really just moving the goal posts.
  - esskay 3y ago
    Not the OP but some of their points are genuine things. Quite surprised they didnt mention the obvious - the added personal costs and time. Everything thats mentioned as a counter point is a compromise to working from home, almost like a "well you could work from home, and save money, and have your own coffee...but why do that when you can come to work and bring coffee with you". I'm sure some thrive in a typical open plan office. Most in technical roles however do not, and find it extremely counter productive.
jen20 3y ago
> I doubt you're working in a food desert after all. Someone who has never been in a suburban business park, I see! > Ditto for coffee and even coffee shops. ESPECIALLY for acceptable coffee! > You don't even have to tell coworkers which one you're working from and you can switch rooms throughout the day. So - and I mean this in a very real way - WTF is the point of this?
- spike021 3y ago
  >Someone who has never been in a suburban business park, I see! Actually I have, and the comment about going out nearby work was like the last option out of the three I listed. Now you're just cherry-picking. >So - and I mean this in a very real way - WTF is the point of this? I never said for the entire day? The idea is if you want to be heads down on important work with zero interruptions you can duck into a room for a couple hours at some point in the day, and if you need another hour or so you can do the same thing. Assuming 6-8 hour work days that's nowhere close to hiding all day, which you're implying I said.
  - jen20 3y ago
    Yes, cherry-picking the arguments that actually matter. Most people going to an office spend their whole day on video calls, and have the temerity to shush people around them who are actually collaborating. They do this while drinking shit coffee from an awful machine (at best) or mediocre coffee from an expensive coffee bar (at best). If people want offices to work out, they have to be downtown, near amenities, not stuck out in a suburban hell-hole because "parking".

mjevans 3y ago

Yes, as they described: Working from Home. It solves all of these problems and has many other benefits mentioned elsewhere in this discourse.

giantrobot 3y ago

> It's not that complicated to bring food from home for lunch, grab something on the way in, or go out for lunch -- I doubt you're working in a food desert after all. Or, try to stay with me here, I'm just at my fucking house and I can pop into the kitchen whenever I want to get food. I can even take my laptop into the kitchen and be on a meeting while I'm cooking or eating. I can make fresh coffee whenever I want. If I'm lazy I can order DoorDash and hot food just shows up at my door. The idea conference rooms are places to get work done is ludicrous. Conference rooms are perennially booked, often overbooked, and at best you might get an hour of uninterrupted work done in one. Woe be unto the poor engineer that's found in a conference room by a middle manager. They'll get no end of shit for *reasons*. Offices have only gotten worse over the past few decades. If my work doesn't involve physically touching hardware (all my shit deploys to The Cloud) there's no reason I can't work from my house. I've been working remote for several years now and it's been amazing for my mental health and productivity. Not to mention I've saved thousands of dollars a year not having to commute.

spike021 3y ago
>Or, try to stay with me here, I'm just at my fucking house and I can pop into the kitchen whenever I want to get food. I can even take my laptop into the kitchen and be on a meeting while I'm cooking or eating. Obviously those defeat the point of the article and the very subjective stated problems that have very simple solutions. >The idea conference rooms are places to get work done is ludicrous. Conference rooms are perennially booked, often overbooked, and at best you might get an hour of uninterrupted work done in one. Woe be unto the poor engineer that's found in a conference room by a middle manager. They'll get no end of shit for reasons. I never had this problem across jobs at three different companies, working out of multiple locations that each had quite varying differences in office culture. Maybe it's a company-specific work culture thing?

caskstrength 3y ago

I'm not sure I'm following. You are proposing to bring the lunch from home and hide in some conference room the whole day, but why go back to the office at all then?

spike021 3y ago
I never said all day. I said you can use different ones at different times of the day, basically _as needed_, like if you need an hour or two to get very heads down with Slack closed and no "taps on the shoulder" as the OP mentioned.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

deathanatos 3y ago

> Ditto for coffee and even coffee shops. … you understand 2 coffee shop lattes are like the same price as the entire bag of ground beans, right? But the bag will make 10-15 times the coffee; the price difference is phenomenal. Its only saving grace is that my budget is dominated by rent, really. There are cheaper shops, yes … but the coffee is terrible. I can do far better myself. > As far as interruptions, a lot of offices have conference rooms engineers can use whenever they want If any significant number of people even attempted this, it'd be ended immediately. There's not enough to go around. > the newer telephone booths. Usually all soundproofed. … so lug keyboard and monitor into a phone booth, and proceed to hog it for the day? > I guess that's not feasible in like a 10-20 person office but I've been in offices for up to 75-100 people and it wasn't that difficult. It's not feasible in any office of any size that I've ever been in, because the resources you're talking about are can only simultaneously serve like 2–5% of the office's population at a time.

spike021 3y ago
>… you understand 2 coffee shop lattes are like the same price as the entire bag of ground beans, right? But the bag will make 10-15 times the coffee; the price difference is phenomenal. Its only saving grace is that my budget is dominated by rent, really And you can't bring in a small bag of beans/pre-ground beans from your favorite roaster? Every office I've worked in had a coffee maker or espresso machine or both, and if you prefer to brew with say a Hario V60 it's not that big a deal to keep one at your desk and just bring a bag of beans lol. You don't even have to lug it to work every day with all the easy ways to order beans these days. And if you're buying your own bags and using those beans you're not spending any more than you would otherwise. This is really just moving the goal posts.
- esskay 3y ago
  Not the OP but some of their points are genuine things. Quite surprised they didnt mention the obvious - the added personal costs and time. Everything thats mentioned as a counter point is a compromise to working from home, almost like a "well you could work from home, and save money, and have your own coffee...but why do that when you can come to work and bring coffee with you". I'm sure some thrive in a typical open plan office. Most in technical roles however do not, and find it extremely counter productive.

jen20 3y ago

> I doubt you're working in a food desert after all. Someone who has never been in a suburban business park, I see! > Ditto for coffee and even coffee shops. ESPECIALLY for acceptable coffee! > You don't even have to tell coworkers which one you're working from and you can switch rooms throughout the day. So - and I mean this in a very real way - WTF is the point of this?

spike021 3y ago
>Someone who has never been in a suburban business park, I see! Actually I have, and the comment about going out nearby work was like the last option out of the three I listed. Now you're just cherry-picking. >So - and I mean this in a very real way - WTF is the point of this? I never said for the entire day? The idea is if you want to be heads down on important work with zero interruptions you can duck into a room for a couple hours at some point in the day, and if you need another hour or so you can do the same thing. Assuming 6-8 hour work days that's nowhere close to hiding all day, which you're implying I said.
- jen20 3y ago
  Yes, cherry-picking the arguments that actually matter. Most people going to an office spend their whole day on video calls, and have the temerity to shush people around them who are actually collaborating. They do this while drinking shit coffee from an awful machine (at best) or mediocre coffee from an expensive coffee bar (at best). If people want offices to work out, they have to be downtown, near amenities, not stuck out in a suburban hell-hole because "parking".