5 ms·

I don't know if there is any amenity at the office that would make me want to commute (and it is like 20 minutes for me to get to work). Like, I already have a

I don't know if there is any amenity at the office that would make me want to commute (and it is like 20 minutes for me to get to work). Like, I already have a private office. Nobody I work with wants to be interrupted with random conversation. So what would going into the office achieve; we'd each spend 40 minutes a day packed into a subway car, while still not actually talking to each other. If you want employees to be happier about work, assign fewer tasks. "Welp I'm done with everything this sprint, guess I'll not come in for 3 days." As an aside, I propose a new Olympic sport called "software engineering". We take the world's best 100m dash runners, and have them run 421.6 100m dashes one after another! If you're a sprinter, why can't you also be a distance runner!

wodenokoto 3y ago
That’s nice for you. We can’t afford to move to an apartment with two extra rooms, so wfh full time would require a raise for both of us.
- javednissar 3y ago
  The WFH vs in-office debate is very much one that is dependent on personal circumstances and I do wish more people understood that
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  The average price difference between a 2 bedroom and a 1 is about $3000 annually. I'm guessing that one bedroom is probably enough for 2 desks. An average couple will use about $5-$12k annually in terms of needing 2 cars, gas, maintenance etc not to mention spending collectively nearly 500 hours commuting over the course of the year. Details matter for instance your commute may be very favorable or the cost of changing apartments very expensive if you already have a good deal but on average WFH is a financial gain and a pretty big one at that.
  - jannyfer 3y ago
    Where I live, the average difference between 1 bedroom and 2 bedrooms is about $12,000/year, which generally requires $20,000 pre-tax income.
    - michaelmrose 3y ago
      As an alternative one may consider setting up an office in a corner of the existing space or nook. Mine is about 5"x6" for instance.
  - plaguuuuuu 3y ago
    This is highly situational. Full time office would cost me $2500 in public transport. Rent difference to 2 bedroom is $15k pa here. The increased amenity of the extra room is totally worth it, but not everyone has the means to pay up to 10k a year extra in rent.
    - jrockway 3y ago
      I mean, transportation is pre-tax, so not really $2500. There's also no such thing as a free lunch. If your employer is buying you an office, then that comes right out of your take-home pay. Or, you're underpaid. Ultimately you provide $X value to the business, your salary and rent for an office don't increase the value, so they directly compete with each other. That's why open offices are so popular, people only compare offers with the $ that they take home. So, they don't put anything else into the other buckets. (I watched Google gradually remove all the perks in order to give people higher total comp. Part of it was taxing snacks and health insurance like income, but part of it was people leaving for the other FAANGs that had less benefits but paid more. The market decided they didn't want private offices at work.)
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - ahtihn 3y ago
        > If your employer is buying you an office, then that comes right out of your take-home pay. That's not really how this works. At all. If it was the case, big tech wouldn't push for return to office.
- kortilla 3y ago
  Why do you need to live in the city if the commute requirement is gone?
  - phinnaeus 3y ago
    The city is where all the fun things are. There's nothing more enjoyable than going for a five minute walk and picking which of the 10 restaurants and bars I pass I'd like to stop at.
    - theultdev 3y ago
      This "problem" pretty much solves itself with the current trend. Those who want to be in cities because of what you listed will pay the premium and stay and deal with the crowding constraints and workarounds such as open offices and high rent. People are sensitive to prices differently and crowding is not too big of a deal since they like people generally. Those who want space and privacy will move out and work remotely and somewhat ease the crowding. Personally I can only "enjoy" a city for a couple days before being drained, then it's back to life as a hermit. But it doesn't look good for those who like in-office w/ private offices. I see no trend to bring that back. Sad because that's the only way I would work in-office.
    - pseudocomposer 3y ago
      You might consider developing an interest in more sustainable hobbies, like running, the gym or an instrument. They offer less immediate gratification, but you can get out of living paycheck to paycheck as people with bar/restaurant habits do. A good way to ease into it is moving somewhere where it’s a 5 minute bike ride instead of a 5 minute walk to bars and restaurants. You’ll save money, get more fit, and get a dopamine detox.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - jrockway 3y ago
        Good luck surviving the 5 minute bike ride to a restaurant in the suburbs.
- tonoto 3y ago
  It doesn't really make sense to me. Why can't you just move to a location where apartments are cheaper?
- Joeri 3y ago
  You don’t necessarily need extra rooms, just be smart about integrating a desk into an existing room. We added one desk in the living room and one desk in our bedroom and both work from home without issues while the kids are in school.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    I mean when the pandemic hit we all made do with what we had, and put a office setup somewhere in the house. But not everyone likes or wants the aesthetic of living room/WFH office. And then when you're off work, your office is right there looking you in the face from the webcam when you're trying to relax in your living room.
    - devjab 3y ago
      I think what they meant was that you can build home offices which can sort of be “folded” away once you’re done with them. I have an office space in the living room which is what you wouldn’t want, we’ve sort of hidden it with some book shelves and some walk decorations and plants, but still, I don’t think you would want it. Anyway, my daughter has a “gaming” setup at the wall next to it and it’s build into a bookcase with a folding table. When she’s not using it you genuinely can’t tell it’s there. It did require some woodworking and some creative furniture “hacking”, but neither my spouse or I are great craftspeople and I think most people would be able to do it. We found our inspiration on YouTube and some actual woodworking help for how to integrate a folding table into a bookshelf on DIY web sites. It’s not for everyone, but you can do it. I don’t work from home more than maybe once a week myself. I don’t really want to. I use it ti work shorter days and then do the rest of my hours at nights/weekends.
    - deathanatos 3y ago
      > I mean when the pandemic hit we all made do with what we had, and put a office setup somewhere in the house. But not everyone likes or wants the aesthetic of living room/WFH office. The home office I have shoved into a corner is better than what any employer will provide. I too wish for a raise, and the financial ability to afford an entire room to dedicate to work, and the crazy things I might be able to put in there, like a whiteboard. > And then when you're off work, your office is right there looking you in the face from the webcam when you're trying to relax in your living room. Post-It that webcam. But I agree, here, it does make it harder to disconnect. But "the commute" is such a heavy negative, I think it outweighs it, still. Having so many weeks per year of my life back is wonderful.
- vincnetas 3y ago
  See, you would not like that someone would force you to work from home. Same goes the other way around. So why not let people choose and refrain from carpet bombing policies mandating everyone be the same.
  - ornornor 3y ago
    if you didn’t enforce RTO mandates, how else would you do your 15% layoff without paying severance or worrying investors?
- deathanatos 3y ago
  I too can't afford a room to call an office … but I still prefer WFH? It does get a little hectic if there are two of us, and we both try to take a meeting overlapping each other. But the same is true of the "real" office, too, only balanced by meeting room availability. (But that only works for meetings where one can forego the rest of their computer, since you have to disconnect to move…)
matsemann 3y ago
I bike to work. I sometimes want to go to the office just because I enjoy the commute so much.

wodenokoto 3y ago

That’s nice for you. We can’t afford to move to an apartment with two extra rooms, so wfh full time would require a raise for both of us.

javednissar 3y ago
The WFH vs in-office debate is very much one that is dependent on personal circumstances and I do wish more people understood that
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
michaelmrose 3y ago
The average price difference between a 2 bedroom and a 1 is about $3000 annually. I'm guessing that one bedroom is probably enough for 2 desks. An average couple will use about $5-$12k annually in terms of needing 2 cars, gas, maintenance etc not to mention spending collectively nearly 500 hours commuting over the course of the year. Details matter for instance your commute may be very favorable or the cost of changing apartments very expensive if you already have a good deal but on average WFH is a financial gain and a pretty big one at that.
- jannyfer 3y ago
  Where I live, the average difference between 1 bedroom and 2 bedrooms is about $12,000/year, which generally requires $20,000 pre-tax income.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    As an alternative one may consider setting up an office in a corner of the existing space or nook. Mine is about 5"x6" for instance.
- plaguuuuuu 3y ago
  This is highly situational. Full time office would cost me $2500 in public transport. Rent difference to 2 bedroom is $15k pa here. The increased amenity of the extra room is totally worth it, but not everyone has the means to pay up to 10k a year extra in rent.
  - jrockway 3y ago
    I mean, transportation is pre-tax, so not really $2500. There's also no such thing as a free lunch. If your employer is buying you an office, then that comes right out of your take-home pay. Or, you're underpaid. Ultimately you provide $X value to the business, your salary and rent for an office don't increase the value, so they directly compete with each other. That's why open offices are so popular, people only compare offers with the $ that they take home. So, they don't put anything else into the other buckets. (I watched Google gradually remove all the perks in order to give people higher total comp. Part of it was taxing snacks and health insurance like income, but part of it was people leaving for the other FAANGs that had less benefits but paid more. The market decided they didn't want private offices at work.)
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - ahtihn 3y ago
      > If your employer is buying you an office, then that comes right out of your take-home pay. That's not really how this works. At all. If it was the case, big tech wouldn't push for return to office.
kortilla 3y ago
Why do you need to live in the city if the commute requirement is gone?
- phinnaeus 3y ago
  The city is where all the fun things are. There's nothing more enjoyable than going for a five minute walk and picking which of the 10 restaurants and bars I pass I'd like to stop at.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    This "problem" pretty much solves itself with the current trend. Those who want to be in cities because of what you listed will pay the premium and stay and deal with the crowding constraints and workarounds such as open offices and high rent. People are sensitive to prices differently and crowding is not too big of a deal since they like people generally. Those who want space and privacy will move out and work remotely and somewhat ease the crowding. Personally I can only "enjoy" a city for a couple days before being drained, then it's back to life as a hermit. But it doesn't look good for those who like in-office w/ private offices. I see no trend to bring that back. Sad because that's the only way I would work in-office.
  - pseudocomposer 3y ago
    You might consider developing an interest in more sustainable hobbies, like running, the gym or an instrument. They offer less immediate gratification, but you can get out of living paycheck to paycheck as people with bar/restaurant habits do. A good way to ease into it is moving somewhere where it’s a 5 minute bike ride instead of a 5 minute walk to bars and restaurants. You’ll save money, get more fit, and get a dopamine detox.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - jrockway 3y ago
      Good luck surviving the 5 minute bike ride to a restaurant in the suburbs.
tonoto 3y ago
It doesn't really make sense to me. Why can't you just move to a location where apartments are cheaper?
Joeri 3y ago
You don’t necessarily need extra rooms, just be smart about integrating a desk into an existing room. We added one desk in the living room and one desk in our bedroom and both work from home without issues while the kids are in school.
- fragmede 3y ago
  I mean when the pandemic hit we all made do with what we had, and put a office setup somewhere in the house. But not everyone likes or wants the aesthetic of living room/WFH office. And then when you're off work, your office is right there looking you in the face from the webcam when you're trying to relax in your living room.
  - devjab 3y ago
    I think what they meant was that you can build home offices which can sort of be “folded” away once you’re done with them. I have an office space in the living room which is what you wouldn’t want, we’ve sort of hidden it with some book shelves and some walk decorations and plants, but still, I don’t think you would want it. Anyway, my daughter has a “gaming” setup at the wall next to it and it’s build into a bookcase with a folding table. When she’s not using it you genuinely can’t tell it’s there. It did require some woodworking and some creative furniture “hacking”, but neither my spouse or I are great craftspeople and I think most people would be able to do it. We found our inspiration on YouTube and some actual woodworking help for how to integrate a folding table into a bookshelf on DIY web sites. It’s not for everyone, but you can do it. I don’t work from home more than maybe once a week myself. I don’t really want to. I use it ti work shorter days and then do the rest of my hours at nights/weekends.
  - deathanatos 3y ago
    > I mean when the pandemic hit we all made do with what we had, and put a office setup somewhere in the house. But not everyone likes or wants the aesthetic of living room/WFH office. The home office I have shoved into a corner is better than what any employer will provide. I too wish for a raise, and the financial ability to afford an entire room to dedicate to work, and the crazy things I might be able to put in there, like a whiteboard. > And then when you're off work, your office is right there looking you in the face from the webcam when you're trying to relax in your living room. Post-It that webcam. But I agree, here, it does make it harder to disconnect. But "the commute" is such a heavy negative, I think it outweighs it, still. Having so many weeks per year of my life back is wonderful.
vincnetas 3y ago
See, you would not like that someone would force you to work from home. Same goes the other way around. So why not let people choose and refrain from carpet bombing policies mandating everyone be the same.
- ornornor 3y ago
  if you didn’t enforce RTO mandates, how else would you do your 15% layoff without paying severance or worrying investors?
deathanatos 3y ago
I too can't afford a room to call an office … but I still prefer WFH? It does get a little hectic if there are two of us, and we both try to take a meeting overlapping each other. But the same is true of the "real" office, too, only balanced by meeting room availability. (But that only works for meetings where one can forego the rest of their computer, since you have to disconnect to move…)

matsemann 3y ago

I bike to work. I sometimes want to go to the office just because I enjoy the commute so much.