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Because none of those things are linked. Most cities around the world have pretty extensive parklands, botanic gardens, and public transport links to nature res

Because none of those things are linked. Most cities around the world have pretty extensive parklands, botanic gardens, and public transport links to nature reserves. Crime is area dependent, not density. And noise is mostly linked to car traffic, which is often reduced in higher density areas.

UnFleshedOne 3y ago
Car traffic might be reduced per capita in higher density areas, but all of it is concentrated and is right near all the people. Multiply by the sirens of ambulance and police that are constantly going somewhere. Compare to a dead-end suburb street which only 5-10 cars have any reason for driving at all.
- yaomtc 3y ago
  You've got it: cars ruin cities. And it can be undone. https://slate.com/business/2023/03/paris-car-ban-bikes-cycling-history-france.html https://slate.com/business/2023/03/paris-car-ban-bikes-cycli...
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  Sprawling suburbs are the opposite of nature. A single large park inside a dense city is far more nature-rich than acres upon acres of suburban lawns are.
  - ars 3y ago
    You've apparently never actually been in a suburb. They typically have random unkempt forests behind each row of houses, and not just a little bit. Like you need a serious walk between houses on different roads, and all of that is a long unbroken piece of nature. The front of the house near the road has the lawn, but there's a LOT more to suburbs than that. 2 minute walk from where I lived in a suburb was a "forest" as I called it as a child, so large you could get lost. In the suburbs where my relatives live there's more forest with bears, and a there's a creek behind their house. Yet from the front it's a road with lawns. There's a lot more to suburbs than that road. Not to mention kids love playing in that road since there's barely any cars. All those car-free threads, about how cars ruin things? Suburban kids already have that: They have barely any cars to contend with.
    - ajoseps 3y ago
      man I’m curious what state or country this suburb is in? The suburb I grew up in was nothing like that. If anything you’re describing something more on the rural side of things.
      - ars 3y ago
        Due to my privacy I'd rather not say the city name, but I will say it was the second largest city in a strongly Democratic coastal state. The largest city in that state was one of those large city hell-holes with too many people crowded in too small a space. But the second largest city was quite nice once you were not too near the downtown.
        ajoseps 3y ago
        It’s interesting how much variation there are for suburbs. I’m mostly used to the types that exist in CA which are very different from what you describe and I am personally trying to avoid settling on. Also as someone who lives in a “large city hell-hole”, I personally greatly prefer it to the suburbs I grew up in. Fwiw a lot of the urbanism movement I’m familiar with prefer rural areas and cities over suburbs. You’re right that cities can’t exist without rural areas and the idea is to make more areas rural, not decrease it. The main issue that is brought up is suburban sprawl, which I think is different from what you’re describing. I think the main idea is to avoid cities like LA and prefer more density like Chicago or NYC.
    - vitus 3y ago
      You have a very narrow definition of a suburb. Indeed, some suburbs have a lot of nature. I've encountered suburbs where individual houses are in the middle of the woods, off the main road, and yet not 10 miles away are developments where all the houses all look identical because they were built by the same developer and have a lawn in front, a backyard, and no wilderness whatsoever; right outside that development are busy streets on all sides. I've lived in suburbs that are incorporated cities with population above a hundred thousand, and are eminently as pedestrian-friendly as some larger cities, but are tiny in comparison to the city that they're suburbs of (with more than a million people within that city's limits). And there are suburbs where you cannot get to the nearest grocery store without getting in a car and driving on the highway for 5 minutes. You can't paint all suburbs as having lots of nature and being devoid of cars, just as you can't say all cities are identical.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  My experience is that dead end suburb streets with no reason to drive on them are constantly used by hoons doing burnouts or modified motorbikes making loads of noise at 1AM

UnFleshedOne 3y ago

Car traffic might be reduced per capita in higher density areas, but all of it is concentrated and is right near all the people. Multiply by the sirens of ambulance and police that are constantly going somewhere. Compare to a dead-end suburb street which only 5-10 cars have any reason for driving at all.

yaomtc 3y ago
You've got it: cars ruin cities. And it can be undone. https://slate.com/business/2023/03/paris-car-ban-bikes-cycling-history-france.html https://slate.com/business/2023/03/paris-car-ban-bikes-cycli...
kdmccormick 3y ago
Sprawling suburbs are the opposite of nature. A single large park inside a dense city is far more nature-rich than acres upon acres of suburban lawns are.
- ars 3y ago
  You've apparently never actually been in a suburb. They typically have random unkempt forests behind each row of houses, and not just a little bit. Like you need a serious walk between houses on different roads, and all of that is a long unbroken piece of nature. The front of the house near the road has the lawn, but there's a LOT more to suburbs than that. 2 minute walk from where I lived in a suburb was a "forest" as I called it as a child, so large you could get lost. In the suburbs where my relatives live there's more forest with bears, and a there's a creek behind their house. Yet from the front it's a road with lawns. There's a lot more to suburbs than that road. Not to mention kids love playing in that road since there's barely any cars. All those car-free threads, about how cars ruin things? Suburban kids already have that: They have barely any cars to contend with.
  - ajoseps 3y ago
    man I’m curious what state or country this suburb is in? The suburb I grew up in was nothing like that. If anything you’re describing something more on the rural side of things.
    - ars 3y ago
      Due to my privacy I'd rather not say the city name, but I will say it was the second largest city in a strongly Democratic coastal state. The largest city in that state was one of those large city hell-holes with too many people crowded in too small a space. But the second largest city was quite nice once you were not too near the downtown.
      - ajoseps 3y ago
        It’s interesting how much variation there are for suburbs. I’m mostly used to the types that exist in CA which are very different from what you describe and I am personally trying to avoid settling on. Also as someone who lives in a “large city hell-hole”, I personally greatly prefer it to the suburbs I grew up in. Fwiw a lot of the urbanism movement I’m familiar with prefer rural areas and cities over suburbs. You’re right that cities can’t exist without rural areas and the idea is to make more areas rural, not decrease it. The main issue that is brought up is suburban sprawl, which I think is different from what you’re describing. I think the main idea is to avoid cities like LA and prefer more density like Chicago or NYC.
  - vitus 3y ago
    You have a very narrow definition of a suburb. Indeed, some suburbs have a lot of nature. I've encountered suburbs where individual houses are in the middle of the woods, off the main road, and yet not 10 miles away are developments where all the houses all look identical because they were built by the same developer and have a lawn in front, a backyard, and no wilderness whatsoever; right outside that development are busy streets on all sides. I've lived in suburbs that are incorporated cities with population above a hundred thousand, and are eminently as pedestrian-friendly as some larger cities, but are tiny in comparison to the city that they're suburbs of (with more than a million people within that city's limits). And there are suburbs where you cannot get to the nearest grocery store without getting in a car and driving on the highway for 5 minutes. You can't paint all suburbs as having lots of nature and being devoid of cars, just as you can't say all cities are identical.
Gigachad 3y ago
My experience is that dead end suburb streets with no reason to drive on them are constantly used by hoons doing burnouts or modified motorbikes making loads of noise at 1AM