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Evil, I guess that means I need to dump AWS and Digital Ocean now. I think it's worth contacting your support rep if you don't like this and letting them know

by Canada 3y ago

Evil, I guess that means I need to dump AWS and Digital Ocean now. I think it's worth contacting your support rep if you don't like this and letting them know you're going looking to take your business elsewhere if this happens.

forgetfreeman 3y ago
K so we've decided any level of oversight into who might be using iaas to (for example) train belligerent ai models is evil? On what grounds?
- sirreal14 3y ago
  AI safetyists have already called for airstriking """rouge""" data centers, don't play coy and pretend that your worldview stops at KYC for infrastructure.
  - forgetfreeman 3y ago
    I have literally no idea wtf you're talking about but now that you bring it up being able to quickly eliminate the source point(s) for targeted attacks on critical infrastructure seems pretty uncontroversial.
    - T-A 3y ago
      > I have literally no idea wtf you're talking about Probably this: https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1641953192761266177 https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1641953192761266177
      - forgetfreeman 3y ago
        Much appreciated
- Canada 3y ago
  Yes, any oversight of compute jobs is evil, full stop. And really, once you start using a lot of resources at a cloud company they start asking about you and your workloads because they want to up sell you more services. I'm sure they're also thinking about what kind of credit risk you might be since the industry generally operates on a post-payment basis. They will also require further information if you're doing things that have potential to harm their services such as email sending. There is no good reason to demand the identity of people spending 1000 bucks a month on virtual machines that nobody is complaining about, it's outright totalitarian.
  - forgetfreeman 3y ago
    That's fucking ridiculous. 30 years ago, before literally every aspect of our existences were wired together and anonymizing your identity online was no more complicated than bouncing through a few shells, yeah, you might have had a point. Fast forward to today and it's credibly possible to brick portions of the power grid, water treatment and delivery facilities, emergency services, hospitals, communications, banking, etc. with a computer. So yeah, given society's threat surface has changed over the decades, changes in oversight are absolutely warranted.
    - Canada 3y ago
      Respectfully, I completely disagree with your view on this. We need to secure that stuff, or take it off the internet, not use it as an excuse to spy on everyone. I also view the requirement for ID to fly domestic as something that is 100% bad and needs to be eliminated.
      - forgetfreeman 3y ago
        When the folks who are screeching about this start organizing protests outside google's offices I'll start taking their claims of concern about user privacy seriously.
        Canada 3y ago

by Canada 3y ago

forgetfreeman 3y ago

K so we've decided any level of oversight into who might be using iaas to (for example) train belligerent ai models is evil? On what grounds?

sirreal14 3y ago
AI safetyists have already called for airstriking """rouge""" data centers, don't play coy and pretend that your worldview stops at KYC for infrastructure.
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  I have literally no idea wtf you're talking about but now that you bring it up being able to quickly eliminate the source point(s) for targeted attacks on critical infrastructure seems pretty uncontroversial.
  - T-A 3y ago
    > I have literally no idea wtf you're talking about Probably this: https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1641953192761266177 https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1641953192761266177
    - forgetfreeman 3y ago
      Much appreciated
Canada 3y ago
Yes, any oversight of compute jobs is evil, full stop. And really, once you start using a lot of resources at a cloud company they start asking about you and your workloads because they want to up sell you more services. I'm sure they're also thinking about what kind of credit risk you might be since the industry generally operates on a post-payment basis. They will also require further information if you're doing things that have potential to harm their services such as email sending. There is no good reason to demand the identity of people spending 1000 bucks a month on virtual machines that nobody is complaining about, it's outright totalitarian.
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  That's fucking ridiculous. 30 years ago, before literally every aspect of our existences were wired together and anonymizing your identity online was no more complicated than bouncing through a few shells, yeah, you might have had a point. Fast forward to today and it's credibly possible to brick portions of the power grid, water treatment and delivery facilities, emergency services, hospitals, communications, banking, etc. with a computer. So yeah, given society's threat surface has changed over the decades, changes in oversight are absolutely warranted.
  - Canada 3y ago
    Respectfully, I completely disagree with your view on this. We need to secure that stuff, or take it off the internet, not use it as an excuse to spy on everyone. I also view the requirement for ID to fly domestic as something that is 100% bad and needs to be eliminated.
    - forgetfreeman 3y ago
      When the folks who are screeching about this start organizing protests outside google's offices I'll start taking their claims of concern about user privacy seriously.
      - Canada 3y ago