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Today the "fulfilling life" is on the verge of disappearing. When most people don't have kids, like South Korea, when you get 60 years old you realize that ther

Today the "fulfilling life" is on the verge of disappearing. When most people don't have kids, like South Korea, when you get 60 years old you realize that there will be nobody to support you because there are not enough people left of working age. At 70 you can die of hunger not because you don't have the money for food, but there is nobody there to sell you the ingredients or deliver the order. You can import food, but it will not distribute itself. Electricity is not produced without people, drinking water need people, these people are your potential kids and grandkids when your are 70 years old and they are not there because you did not have any.

kredd 3y ago
That argument only works for people who care how they’ll live in their 60s/70s. There’s a morbid reality check in my circles (late 20s/30s) that the way our parents are living right now will never be obtainable for us (this includes friends with children as well). So might as well squeeze out life right now, at least have stories to tell to each other when we’re “dying of hunger in our 70s”. It’s not a scientific data point or anything, just bunch of friends shooting the shit and talking at the bar kind of stuff. I’m not saying it’s all doom and gloom in the future, but it’s simply a risk assessment. The usual semi-paradox of “if others don’t care about it, why should I”, but apply that to everyone in the world.
badpun 3y ago
The standard of living will go down for sure, but I don't think it's reasonable to predict people starving to death due to not enough workers producing food. More likely, we won't be going on vacations abroad, we'll be driving our cars for 20+ years, will be living in small houses or apartments.
- loup-vaillant 3y ago
  We regularly get the labour shortage argument to push retirement age later and later. There's just one problem: if there's a labour shortage, where does the 10+% unemployment comes from? Can't be explained by unfulfilled positions either, we counted in France, there's one open position for 10 unemployed worker. And bloody hell, if push comes to shove, we can give up on optional niceties and reallocate labour to the more important stuff.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    >where does the 10+% unemployment comes from? Would-be workers have too high standards. I don't necessarily blame them, it's the logical conclusion to being told "Go to college and get a degree if you don't want to end up flipping burgers at McDonald's." their entire life.
    - loup-vaillant 3y ago
      Don’t miss the part where there is only 1 vacancy for 10 workers. Lowering standards would not solve anything here, even if everyone accepted any job and relocate accordingly to fill every single vacancy, unemployment would hardly go down.
  - AdrianB1 3y ago
    In Romania we have a crisis of workers in highway constructions and at the same time people living on benefits. The jobs are paying above the average, most are for operators of heavy machinery (trucks, bulldozers), don't require high skills, but people prefer to not work. Statistics are showing unemployment in areas where candidates want jobs that don't exist (wrong studies, wrong expectations), in the meanwhile there are plans to import 100,000 temporary workers from Sri Lanka. People having unrealistic expectations are mostly explaining the high unemployment and high vacancy of some positions. It is a mismatch and the numbers are cooked, France is importing workforce from abroad (including Romania) for positions that French natives don't want.
    - loup-vaillant 3y ago
      My question is how many? How many unemployed? And how many opened positions? Your wording suggests that the number of opened positions exceeds half of the number of unemployed workers, but what’s your actual numeric estimation?
      - AdrianB1 3y ago
        Yes, the number of open positions exceeds even the total number of people looking for a job. The number of unemployed people (they are not "workers", some did not work a day in their life) and the number of people looking for a job are very disconnected around here, living on benefits is preferred by way too many. 1. In some rural areas it is economically more profitable not to work than working a low wage job. You raise some chicken and a pig or cow, grow some food for self-consumption, get benefits, gg 2. Some people go for work in Western Europe for 3 to 6 months, then spend the rest of the year at home doing nothing. Or go to work in the season on the seaside and "rest" for the rest of the year.

kredd 3y ago

That argument only works for people who care how they’ll live in their 60s/70s. There’s a morbid reality check in my circles (late 20s/30s) that the way our parents are living right now will never be obtainable for us (this includes friends with children as well). So might as well squeeze out life right now, at least have stories to tell to each other when we’re “dying of hunger in our 70s”. It’s not a scientific data point or anything, just bunch of friends shooting the shit and talking at the bar kind of stuff. I’m not saying it’s all doom and gloom in the future, but it’s simply a risk assessment. The usual semi-paradox of “if others don’t care about it, why should I”, but apply that to everyone in the world.

badpun 3y ago

The standard of living will go down for sure, but I don't think it's reasonable to predict people starving to death due to not enough workers producing food. More likely, we won't be going on vacations abroad, we'll be driving our cars for 20+ years, will be living in small houses or apartments.

loup-vaillant 3y ago
We regularly get the labour shortage argument to push retirement age later and later. There's just one problem: if there's a labour shortage, where does the 10+% unemployment comes from? Can't be explained by unfulfilled positions either, we counted in France, there's one open position for 10 unemployed worker. And bloody hell, if push comes to shove, we can give up on optional niceties and reallocate labour to the more important stuff.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >where does the 10+% unemployment comes from? Would-be workers have too high standards. I don't necessarily blame them, it's the logical conclusion to being told "Go to college and get a degree if you don't want to end up flipping burgers at McDonald's." their entire life.
  - loup-vaillant 3y ago
    Don’t miss the part where there is only 1 vacancy for 10 workers. Lowering standards would not solve anything here, even if everyone accepted any job and relocate accordingly to fill every single vacancy, unemployment would hardly go down.
- AdrianB1 3y ago
  In Romania we have a crisis of workers in highway constructions and at the same time people living on benefits. The jobs are paying above the average, most are for operators of heavy machinery (trucks, bulldozers), don't require high skills, but people prefer to not work. Statistics are showing unemployment in areas where candidates want jobs that don't exist (wrong studies, wrong expectations), in the meanwhile there are plans to import 100,000 temporary workers from Sri Lanka. People having unrealistic expectations are mostly explaining the high unemployment and high vacancy of some positions. It is a mismatch and the numbers are cooked, France is importing workforce from abroad (including Romania) for positions that French natives don't want.
  - loup-vaillant 3y ago
    My question is how many? How many unemployed? And how many opened positions? Your wording suggests that the number of opened positions exceeds half of the number of unemployed workers, but what’s your actual numeric estimation?
    - AdrianB1 3y ago
      Yes, the number of open positions exceeds even the total number of people looking for a job. The number of unemployed people (they are not "workers", some did not work a day in their life) and the number of people looking for a job are very disconnected around here, living on benefits is preferred by way too many. 1. In some rural areas it is economically more profitable not to work than working a low wage job. You raise some chicken and a pig or cow, grow some food for self-consumption, get benefits, gg 2. Some people go for work in Western Europe for 3 to 6 months, then spend the rest of the year at home doing nothing. Or go to work in the season on the seaside and "rest" for the rest of the year.