6 ms·

> It is extremely difficult for programmer-users to report bugs against the Windows API (we're supposed to direct you to Feedback Hub, but you may as well trans

by Nition 3y ago

> It is extremely difficult for programmer-users to report bugs against the Windows API (we're supposed to direct you to Feedback Hub, but you may as well transmit your message into deep space). :'‑(

Avamander 3y ago
This is an issue with a lot of MS products. I honestly have no clue how much money one would have to throw at MS to get a bug fixed. For example Microsoft's *own* Pluton-enabled platforms fail Windows' Device Health Attestation checks due to an incomplete chain (https://call4cloud.nl/2023/04/are-you-there-intune-its-me-hac/ https://call4cloud.nl/2023/04/are-you-there-intune-its-me-ha...).
- Nition 3y ago
  I've noticed a lot of big products have a user feedback cycle that goes something like this: - Create new feedback tracker - Direct feedback to tracker - Stop paying any attention to tracker - Tracker is hundreds of pages of users shouting into the void, and much of it out-of-date - Delete everything - Create new feedback tracker...
  - Nition 3y ago
    There's nothing worse than having a problem with a product, finding 250 other people on the feedback tracker that have had the same problem over the last three years, and the only official response is some support person on the first page who's saying your feedback is very important to us, and have you tried [troubleshooting that won't work]?
    - Avamander 3y ago
      At that scale they have 250 000 people that didn't try the obvious troubleshooting first though. But yes, it's annoying.
      - Nition 3y ago
        They often seem to end up like this: Topic: Can't select blue wallpaper Body: Hi, for some reason I can't select blue as a wallpaper colour. I can select any other colour, just not blue. I have Enable All Colours ticked. Anything else I'm missing? Reply #1: Hi I have this problem too, does anyone know? Reply #2: Same problem here. Reply #3: Same problem, I can select any colour except blue. Reply #4: Hi there User344925. Let me first say that your feedback is incredibly, impossibly important to us. I'm Bob and I'll be your Licensed Support Person today. Let's get started and see if we can solve your problem. I understand you're having trouble setting the colour blue for your wallpaper in personalisation settings. This is a common problem to have, and I'm pleased to say there is a simple fix available. Open Settings -> Personalisation -> Advanced Settings -> Advanced Personalisation Settings, and tick "Enable All Colours". Now you should be able to set any colour you like. Please remember to mark this question as SOLVED at the top and mark my post as the Approved Answer if this solved your problem. Have a great day! Replies #5-#250: Users with the same problem.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    The fundamental problem here is that they have a billion users and most of them don't know what they're talking about. If you create a simple way to contact the company it will soon be full of messages from end users who can't even articulate what their problem is but it's usually some kind of malware or user error and is definitely not a problem with whatever component they're reporting the issue against. What you really need is a way to report problems which is high friction. You have to submit a git pull request of your ssh public key so you can transmit your bug report via sftp. Now they only get bug reports from people who can figure out how to do that and can actually pay attention to them because it filters out all the spam from people asking Microsoft how to connect their Android to a Mac.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Microsoft makes ~16 billion $ a quarter in profit, of which they return ~10 billion $ to their investors. They could go and spend 200 million a quarter on decent customer support without making too much of a dent in their financial line. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/investor/earnings/fy-2023-q2/press-release-webcast https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/investor/earnings/fy-2023-q2...
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        $200M is approximately $0.15/user. How much support do you expect to get for that?
        mschuster91 3y ago
        How many of these 1 billion users actually need support? Only a tiny fraction.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Uh... what? If there was a free number you could call to get competent technical support, people would spend their entire day on the phone with it instead of reading documentation or hiring IT staff.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
TexasMick 3y ago
I've ran into this too, the feedback hub seems to be populated by first line support types. I also found a bug in a win32 API and the feedback hub told me to reboot my PC
mook 3y ago
Unfortunately, the opposite of that is everybody trying to file random things that aren't actionable. See the collection of mail sent to the curl maintainer… https://github.com/bagder/emails/blob/main/2015/2015-06-08.md https://github.com/bagder/emails/blob/main/2015/2015-06-08.m...

by Nition 3y ago

Avamander 3y ago

This is an issue with a lot of MS products. I honestly have no clue how much money one would have to throw at MS to get a bug fixed. For example Microsoft's *own* Pluton-enabled platforms fail Windows' Device Health Attestation checks due to an incomplete chain (https://call4cloud.nl/2023/04/are-you-there-intune-its-me-hac/ https://call4cloud.nl/2023/04/are-you-there-intune-its-me-ha...).

Nition 3y ago
I've noticed a lot of big products have a user feedback cycle that goes something like this: - Create new feedback tracker - Direct feedback to tracker - Stop paying any attention to tracker - Tracker is hundreds of pages of users shouting into the void, and much of it out-of-date - Delete everything - Create new feedback tracker...
- Nition 3y ago
  There's nothing worse than having a problem with a product, finding 250 other people on the feedback tracker that have had the same problem over the last three years, and the only official response is some support person on the first page who's saying your feedback is very important to us, and have you tried [troubleshooting that won't work]?
  - Avamander 3y ago
    At that scale they have 250 000 people that didn't try the obvious troubleshooting first though. But yes, it's annoying.
    - Nition 3y ago
      They often seem to end up like this: Topic: Can't select blue wallpaper Body: Hi, for some reason I can't select blue as a wallpaper colour. I can select any other colour, just not blue. I have Enable All Colours ticked. Anything else I'm missing? Reply #1: Hi I have this problem too, does anyone know? Reply #2: Same problem here. Reply #3: Same problem, I can select any colour except blue. Reply #4: Hi there User344925. Let me first say that your feedback is incredibly, impossibly important to us. I'm Bob and I'll be your Licensed Support Person today. Let's get started and see if we can solve your problem. I understand you're having trouble setting the colour blue for your wallpaper in personalisation settings. This is a common problem to have, and I'm pleased to say there is a simple fix available. Open Settings -> Personalisation -> Advanced Settings -> Advanced Personalisation Settings, and tick "Enable All Colours". Now you should be able to set any colour you like. Please remember to mark this question as SOLVED at the top and mark my post as the Approved Answer if this solved your problem. Have a great day! Replies #5-#250: Users with the same problem.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  The fundamental problem here is that they have a billion users and most of them don't know what they're talking about. If you create a simple way to contact the company it will soon be full of messages from end users who can't even articulate what their problem is but it's usually some kind of malware or user error and is definitely not a problem with whatever component they're reporting the issue against. What you really need is a way to report problems which is high friction. You have to submit a git pull request of your ssh public key so you can transmit your bug report via sftp. Now they only get bug reports from people who can figure out how to do that and can actually pay attention to them because it filters out all the spam from people asking Microsoft how to connect their Android to a Mac.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Microsoft makes ~16 billion $ a quarter in profit, of which they return ~10 billion $ to their investors. They could go and spend 200 million a quarter on decent customer support without making too much of a dent in their financial line. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/investor/earnings/fy-2023-q2/press-release-webcast https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/investor/earnings/fy-2023-q2...
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      $200M is approximately $0.15/user. How much support do you expect to get for that?
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        How many of these 1 billion users actually need support? Only a tiny fraction.
        AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        Uh... what? If there was a free number you could call to get competent technical support, people would spend their entire day on the phone with it instead of reading documentation or hiring IT staff.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

TexasMick 3y ago

I've ran into this too, the feedback hub seems to be populated by first line support types. I also found a bug in a win32 API and the feedback hub told me to reboot my PC

mook 3y ago

Unfortunately, the opposite of that is everybody trying to file random things that aren't actionable. See the collection of mail sent to the curl maintainer… https://github.com/bagder/emails/blob/main/2015/2015-06-08.md https://github.com/bagder/emails/blob/main/2015/2015-06-08.m...