3 ms·

Listening to audiobooks is reading, end of story. Quit gatekeeping, free time to sit with a book & do nothing else concurrently is a huge luxury. FWIW, recentl

Listening to audiobooks is reading, end of story. Quit gatekeeping, free time to sit with a book & do nothing else concurrently is a huge luxury. FWIW, recently I've started listening to audiobooks of nonfiction books while also reading along with the physical copy. Sometimes I pause the audiobook to jot notes down in the margins. I listen at about 3x speed so this helps me go a LOT faster than I could read myself and I also get the benefit of being able to write as I go, which imo makes a much bigger difference in retention than anything else (plus I can look back at my notes later). For fiction I just listen, usually while doing jigsaw puzzles at the same time.

fritzo 3y ago
Agreed. I notice daily fluctuation in my relative aptitudes for visually vs aurally ingesting media. On days when vision feels tough, I'll use osx screen reader at ~3x speed while looking at the document. Seeing the document helps me navigate, but I stumble when trying to parse sentences w/o the reader. Other days, I appreciate flitting around visually, parsing sentences nonlinearly and glancing back and ahead.
- RheingoldRiver 3y ago
  > I notice daily fluctuation in my relative aptitudes for visually vs aurally ingesting media. Yes, same! I think ability to concentrate on written print & ability to concentrate on read-out-loud texts are pretty unrelated but both very trainable skills and you slowly lose acuity in each as you don't use the skills. If I'm reading an ebook for the first time in a while, my attention span is abysmal, and same with audiobooks. When I first started listening to audiobooks the only way I could pay attention was if I was also doing something visual at the same time (jigsaw puzzles usually) and my mind wandered constantly. I thought audiobooks just weren't for me, but after months of listening now I can stare into space for several hours straight, completely immersed in the book.
whoopsie 3y ago
I’ll gate keep a step further. Only writing the book counts. Everyone reading is only getting a fraction of the value. /s
- endless1234 3y ago
  Yep, this is basically what the "you wouldn't call watching somebody play a game playing" argument, which was mentioned in the article, boils down to.
- woopwoop 3y ago
  I know you're being facetious, but there's something to this. Both reading and listening are passive. They're indistinguishable from each other, but both are quite distinguishable from writing, or reading the way you would "read" a math or physics textbook (which involves very little of the activity of scanning words on the page and very much of the activity of scribbling stuff in a notebook and then staring at it for awhile).
signaru 3y ago
The important part is that you're actually "listening". I used to listen to audiobooks when I commute to work and I do learn from them. Stuck at home, I play audiobooks as part of multi-tasking, and there are many times that I'm just "hearing" so it's not as effective. Still good enough to familiarize with the book and be more prepared the next time around.
funcDropShadow 3y ago
> Listening to audiobooks is reading, end of story. Quit gatekeeping, What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping. Most of the time there is nobody guarding the gate to keep people outside. Usually, there is just some reality of life that if you don't put in the work, you don't get the reward. Listening to audiobooks, can be entertaining or very educating or boring just as reading a book. But I severely doubt that there are more then 10 human beings (obviously made up number) that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book with a stack papers and a pencil. On the other hand, listening to Elon Musks autobiography is something I can do while driving without any problems. > FWIW, recently I've started listening to audiobooks of nonfiction books while also reading along with the physical copy. That is an interesting approach. I've bought several books in their paper and audio book form to listen them first and use the paper as reference later. I will try using both at the same time.
- RheingoldRiver 3y ago
  > What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping Because that's what it is. I spent a couple years reading /r/fantasy daily, and about once a month or so there would be a post something along the lines of "My SO/close friend/family member thinks I don't read because I listen to audiobooks. Are they right?" People believe there's debate about what they read there's debate about, and it can lead to accusatory comments like that. It's damaging when someone wants to be part of a community and feels like an outsider when they shouldn't. > that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book 1. I recently watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk discussing what constitutes "valid" reading. Someone who reads 20 romance novels a month is a voracious reader just as much as someone who spends 3 years to get through Rudin. Reading romance novels is reading. Reading Star Wars novels is reading. Reading self-help books is reading. 2. Listening acuity improves with practice. If you listen at 3x speed (or faster, depending on the speed of the narrator), it's kind of incredible how many more words you can keep in your head at a time. 3. (This point is redundant because, see point 1) People attend math lectures all the time. Sure, there will be visual aids but who says you aren't supplementing with visual aids when you listen to an audiobook when you're learning something? And while I haven't researched it myself I'm sure there are a lot of accessibility options for listening to math that help a lot as well.

fritzo 3y ago

Agreed. I notice daily fluctuation in my relative aptitudes for visually vs aurally ingesting media. On days when vision feels tough, I'll use osx screen reader at ~3x speed while looking at the document. Seeing the document helps me navigate, but I stumble when trying to parse sentences w/o the reader. Other days, I appreciate flitting around visually, parsing sentences nonlinearly and glancing back and ahead.

RheingoldRiver 3y ago
> I notice daily fluctuation in my relative aptitudes for visually vs aurally ingesting media. Yes, same! I think ability to concentrate on written print & ability to concentrate on read-out-loud texts are pretty unrelated but both very trainable skills and you slowly lose acuity in each as you don't use the skills. If I'm reading an ebook for the first time in a while, my attention span is abysmal, and same with audiobooks. When I first started listening to audiobooks the only way I could pay attention was if I was also doing something visual at the same time (jigsaw puzzles usually) and my mind wandered constantly. I thought audiobooks just weren't for me, but after months of listening now I can stare into space for several hours straight, completely immersed in the book.

whoopsie 3y ago

I’ll gate keep a step further. Only writing the book counts. Everyone reading is only getting a fraction of the value. /s

endless1234 3y ago
Yep, this is basically what the "you wouldn't call watching somebody play a game playing" argument, which was mentioned in the article, boils down to.
woopwoop 3y ago
I know you're being facetious, but there's something to this. Both reading and listening are passive. They're indistinguishable from each other, but both are quite distinguishable from writing, or reading the way you would "read" a math or physics textbook (which involves very little of the activity of scanning words on the page and very much of the activity of scribbling stuff in a notebook and then staring at it for awhile).

signaru 3y ago

The important part is that you're actually "listening". I used to listen to audiobooks when I commute to work and I do learn from them. Stuck at home, I play audiobooks as part of multi-tasking, and there are many times that I'm just "hearing" so it's not as effective. Still good enough to familiarize with the book and be more prepared the next time around.

funcDropShadow 3y ago

> Listening to audiobooks is reading, end of story. Quit gatekeeping, What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping. Most of the time there is nobody guarding the gate to keep people outside. Usually, there is just some reality of life that if you don't put in the work, you don't get the reward. Listening to audiobooks, can be entertaining or very educating or boring just as reading a book. But I severely doubt that there are more then 10 human beings (obviously made up number) that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book with a stack papers and a pencil. On the other hand, listening to Elon Musks autobiography is something I can do while driving without any problems. > FWIW, recently I've started listening to audiobooks of nonfiction books while also reading along with the physical copy. That is an interesting approach. I've bought several books in their paper and audio book form to listen them first and use the paper as reference later. I will try using both at the same time.

RheingoldRiver 3y ago
> What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping Because that's what it is. I spent a couple years reading /r/fantasy daily, and about once a month or so there would be a post something along the lines of "My SO/close friend/family member thinks I don't read because I listen to audiobooks. Are they right?" People believe there's debate about what they read there's debate about, and it can lead to accusatory comments like that. It's damaging when someone wants to be part of a community and feels like an outsider when they shouldn't. > that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book 1. I recently watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk discussing what constitutes "valid" reading. Someone who reads 20 romance novels a month is a voracious reader just as much as someone who spends 3 years to get through Rudin. Reading romance novels is reading. Reading Star Wars novels is reading. Reading self-help books is reading. 2. Listening acuity improves with practice. If you listen at 3x speed (or faster, depending on the speed of the narrator), it's kind of incredible how many more words you can keep in your head at a time. 3. (This point is redundant because, see point 1) People attend math lectures all the time. Sure, there will be visual aids but who says you aren't supplementing with visual aids when you listen to an audiobook when you're learning something? And while I haven't researched it myself I'm sure there are a lot of accessibility options for listening to math that help a lot as well.