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Treating all audiobooks equally is a mistake. Audio books are a transformation function applied to physical books. Asking whether they count as books is asking

Treating all audiobooks equally is a mistake. Audio books are a transformation function applied to physical books. Asking whether they count as books is asking the wrong question. The more important question is: "what am I trying to get out of reading this book? And will an audiobook help me to do this better?" The answer to this question will be unique to every person and every book. I read quite a few books for the entertainment value they provide - I like getting lost in a good novel occasionally without having to reflect too seriously on each passage. Audiobooks provide a convenient means of enabling me to enjoy the book, especially if driving, commuting, or performing some other task. However, if I am reading a nonfiction book, I want the book in front of me so I can double back to certain passages, check references and footnotes, write in the margins, skip to chapters and pages. I want more control over the reading experience. The audiobook forces me to trade all of that for an experience it provides. I think for some people, audiobooks can end up like podcasts. People will sometimes listen to podcasts with intelligent people in the hopes that they learn something from the podcast. Maybe by listening to interviews with a famous mathematician or startup founder, one can learn some crucial aspect of becoming a successful mathematician or founder. However, the main value one gets out of podcasts is entertainment. Because you typically engage passively with a podcast, you are less likely to retain some useful bit of information that you hope to get.

topologie 3y ago
I like your way of thinking about Audiobooks as "Audio books are a transformation function applied to physical books." They also help sometimes in getting the "musicality" of a work. I didn't know how musical Moby Dick was until I heard the audiobook narrated by Frank Muller. He transformed the whole thing. Like when one reads Shakespeare and only afterwards watches it live. I tend to have audiobook+book combos for almost every book I love, since it's also a good way to continue "reading" even when ones eyes are tired...
agumonkey 3y ago
I tried podcasts and the majority of them are not different from tv shows or news cast, maybe not raw entertainment but it's in that bag. Sometimes you end up with someone presenting a new idea just right, but it's not common.
- browningstreet 3y ago
  I find that the podcasts I listen to reveal a strikingly different thing when people can talk for 1-3 hours about something. It’s between what we were used to on television and a book. But as a dialogue. Less true for Joe Rogan but more true for Rich Roll.
  - agumonkey 3y ago
    Fair point, but there a many long podcasts where the host and the guest can't connect enough and it's more of a technical-ish chat versus a learning moment.
britzkopf 3y ago
It's for a similar reason that I find eReaders to be so disappointing. I have no interest in color or other aesthetic innovations, but I'm very interested in speed. I feel they have yet to reach some threshold such that I can confidently navigate backwards and forwards any number of pages at a time without losing focus. I'm they're current implementation none of them come close to physical books for that, but I feel like they could if that were the goal.
- icepat 3y ago
  Indeed - there's a lot of "UX features" in books that make them ideal. Something as simple as jamming your thumb between where you want to go back to, and where you are going. Another point for notebooks as well. I prefer a paper journal to a Notion document for the same reasons.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
I actually have the opposite experience, at least with the books I read. Nonfiction is typically highly repetitive and redundant so I find it suits audiobooks far better. Meanwhile fiction has a lot of subtle nuance and rewards carefully reading each sentence. Of course this depends on what books you read in each category, if it’s a physics textbook vs Colleen Hoover then it’s the opposite.
- guywhocodes 3y ago
  I've found this to be particularly true with William Gibson, tried to listen to some but a split second lapses in attention forcing me to go back often and I gave up. And just pick up a text.
- ygra 3y ago
  For me this difference manifests in the speed I can listen to. I typically listen to podcasts at 1.7× speed whereas I listen to (fiction) audiobooks at 1× speed. Partly this is because it lets me appreciate a good reader's work better with intonation, different voices, etc., but it's probably also what you note that they're at different information densities. Even so, I tend to rewind when I notice I missed something, e.g. due to my attention being needed elsewhere for a bit. I mostly listen while cycling and as long as I'm outside the city there's few distractions, but when sharing the streets with others there's often distractions that are more important than listening.
importantbrian 3y ago
This probably depends on the person. I have the same experience as you. I exclusively use audiobooks for fiction. If I'm reading for information I have to read a physical book. My wife is the complete opposite though. She retains the information much better if she hears it. She is dyslexic though so I'm sure that plays a big role.
jazzsouff 3y ago
I agree, but just the opposite for me. I prefer owning physical copies of fiction books, and listen to nonfiction audiobooks. Usually I find non-fiction books to have a lot of repetition. Of course it depends on the book, but I just feel that if I miss a passage, it won't be as confusing as missing a sentence of a good novel.
voganmother42 3y ago
I think podcasts, audiobooks, and books are all information, and in general there are a huge number of purposes and formats and its a bit silly to treat any type of presentation as being specific to a particular purpose. Not everyone has the luxury to access information in their preferred format either. For me what is often challenging is how much variation can go into the audio that can challenge my purpose, a dry or mechanical recitation of the text vs a skilled telling vs a full cast that is comprised of a huge variety of performers.
pxtail 3y ago
> Audio books are a transformation function applied to physical books Very true - for me this is source of the problem with difficulty to find good quality technical audiobooks, I think that in order to "work" correctly, to properly deliver technical knowledge such audiobooks would have to be structured differently and thought out with upfront knowledge that information will be delivered in audio form.

topologie 3y ago

I like your way of thinking about Audiobooks as "Audio books are a transformation function applied to physical books." They also help sometimes in getting the "musicality" of a work. I didn't know how musical Moby Dick was until I heard the audiobook narrated by Frank Muller. He transformed the whole thing. Like when one reads Shakespeare and only afterwards watches it live. I tend to have audiobook+book combos for almost every book I love, since it's also a good way to continue "reading" even when ones eyes are tired...

agumonkey 3y ago

I tried podcasts and the majority of them are not different from tv shows or news cast, maybe not raw entertainment but it's in that bag. Sometimes you end up with someone presenting a new idea just right, but it's not common.

browningstreet 3y ago
I find that the podcasts I listen to reveal a strikingly different thing when people can talk for 1-3 hours about something. It’s between what we were used to on television and a book. But as a dialogue. Less true for Joe Rogan but more true for Rich Roll.
- agumonkey 3y ago
  Fair point, but there a many long podcasts where the host and the guest can't connect enough and it's more of a technical-ish chat versus a learning moment.

britzkopf 3y ago

It's for a similar reason that I find eReaders to be so disappointing. I have no interest in color or other aesthetic innovations, but I'm very interested in speed. I feel they have yet to reach some threshold such that I can confidently navigate backwards and forwards any number of pages at a time without losing focus. I'm they're current implementation none of them come close to physical books for that, but I feel like they could if that were the goal.

icepat 3y ago
Indeed - there's a lot of "UX features" in books that make them ideal. Something as simple as jamming your thumb between where you want to go back to, and where you are going. Another point for notebooks as well. I prefer a paper journal to a Notion document for the same reasons.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

I actually have the opposite experience, at least with the books I read. Nonfiction is typically highly repetitive and redundant so I find it suits audiobooks far better. Meanwhile fiction has a lot of subtle nuance and rewards carefully reading each sentence. Of course this depends on what books you read in each category, if it’s a physics textbook vs Colleen Hoover then it’s the opposite.

guywhocodes 3y ago
I've found this to be particularly true with William Gibson, tried to listen to some but a split second lapses in attention forcing me to go back often and I gave up. And just pick up a text.
ygra 3y ago
For me this difference manifests in the speed I can listen to. I typically listen to podcasts at 1.7× speed whereas I listen to (fiction) audiobooks at 1× speed. Partly this is because it lets me appreciate a good reader's work better with intonation, different voices, etc., but it's probably also what you note that they're at different information densities. Even so, I tend to rewind when I notice I missed something, e.g. due to my attention being needed elsewhere for a bit. I mostly listen while cycling and as long as I'm outside the city there's few distractions, but when sharing the streets with others there's often distractions that are more important than listening.

importantbrian 3y ago

This probably depends on the person. I have the same experience as you. I exclusively use audiobooks for fiction. If I'm reading for information I have to read a physical book. My wife is the complete opposite though. She retains the information much better if she hears it. She is dyslexic though so I'm sure that plays a big role.

jazzsouff 3y ago

I agree, but just the opposite for me. I prefer owning physical copies of fiction books, and listen to nonfiction audiobooks. Usually I find non-fiction books to have a lot of repetition. Of course it depends on the book, but I just feel that if I miss a passage, it won't be as confusing as missing a sentence of a good novel.

voganmother42 3y ago

I think podcasts, audiobooks, and books are all information, and in general there are a huge number of purposes and formats and its a bit silly to treat any type of presentation as being specific to a particular purpose. Not everyone has the luxury to access information in their preferred format either. For me what is often challenging is how much variation can go into the audio that can challenge my purpose, a dry or mechanical recitation of the text vs a skilled telling vs a full cast that is comprised of a huge variety of performers.

pxtail 3y ago

> Audio books are a transformation function applied to physical books Very true - for me this is source of the problem with difficulty to find good quality technical audiobooks, I think that in order to "work" correctly, to properly deliver technical knowledge such audiobooks would have to be structured differently and thought out with upfront knowledge that information will be delivered in audio form.