3 ms·

You're essentially calling this person a liar for sharing an anecdote. Why is this even a matter of belief, what makes you uncomfortable about it? With a modi

You're essentially calling this person a liar for sharing an anecdote. Why is this even a matter of belief, what makes you uncomfortable about it? With a modicum of effort you can indeed corroborate that this happened - I hope you do so - but I'm more curios about the knee jerk reaction. You clearly don't want it to be real and simultanously you left open the possibility that it is a thing you aren't familiar with. But first and foremost you called him a liar. This is worthy of further rumination.

screenobobeano 3y ago
[flagged]
- jbullock35 3y ago
  What do you make of Erik Wemple's investigation of the incident, which he describes at https://twitter.com/ErikWemple/status/1763646613778563225 https://twitter.com/ErikWemple/status/1763646613778563225? He is a media critic at the Washington Post -- is he lying about his incident, too?
- barry-cotter 3y ago
  Unless you’re willing to say who you are your claim to be an NYT employee is worthless.
kergonath 3y ago
Why are you so aggressive? They did not call the author a liar, just said that a specific point was unbelievable. Which it is for some people; this behaviour is completely alien to me for example. > Why is this even a matter of belief, what makes you uncomfortable about it? Nobody mentioned any kind of discomfort, merely bewilderment. You are tearing down a strawman you built based on a very uncharitable reading of a 1-sentence comment. That sentence even mentioned the author being a cultural outsider. > but I'm more curios about the knee jerk reaction. I am more curious about why you chose to escalate so quickly instead of taking this as an opportunity to discuss different viewpoints and experiences. Also, why you are so quick to attribute malice on such a flimsy basis. > This is worthy of further rumination. You present yourself as a model of cultural understanding (because clearly your attitude is better and one we should emulate), but you do sound a bit like a member of a cult. This is also worthy of some rumination.
- verticalscaler 3y ago
  Which cult am I a member of? P.S. - Dear dang, with regards to our previous discussion elsewhere. Observe the above.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    I wasn’t going to elaborate because that’s way out of topic. But since you ask, here we go, at the risk of over-analysing. > Which cult am I a member of? I did not write that you were part of one, just that what you wrote sounded like it. In this case, one for which such strange behaviour would be normal and failing to grasp how outlandish it seems to anyone else, chiding an outsider who does not believe it. Which is of course internally inconsistent because you also seem to support the story’s author, who himself wrote how bizarre it was. Therefore I would think that you’d understand how someone else could find it unbelievable (which you seem to come to in your other comment). To be fair the main issue I have with your post, and why I replied at all, was how out of line its aggressiveness was compared to the OP, who merely expressed confusion. I don’t know who you are or what your perspective is on this, but there must be other ways of making your point. The fact that several other people in the thread have a hard time believing it should tell you how utterly strange it is. And yet, you interpret them as attacks to the author, which they really don’t seem to be (apart from a comment from a throwaway account, which gets rightly called out). > P.S. - Dear dang, with regards to our previous discussion elsewhere. Observe the above. Ok. First, that’s rude to drop me in a private conversation about which I don’t know anything line that. If you want to use my comments to make a point, at least keep it private. Second, he does not read every single comment. If you want to write something he’ll see, a good place would be your private discussion elsewhere.
    - verticalscaler 3y ago
      > I did not write that you were part of one, just that what you wrote sounded like it. > I don’t know who you are or what your perspective is on this, but there must be other ways of making your point. I'm struggling a bit here. Help me out, saying I sound like I'm in a cult is good manners? And which cult does it sound like I'm in?
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
since I lived in the U.S a long time and never experienced this snapping thing I felt what, no way, this is crazy. I mean sure if I went to a meeting of American Moonies and they started snapping I'd think wow that is what this subculture does, but I expected that the behavior of the NYT was still in the range of what I remembered as being normal. This is actually a common thing when you have lived in a place for a good amount of time and then leave, but keep awareness of the general cultural and political exports, you feel you know that society and what is it like but you perhaps do not know as well as you think you do. >Why is this even a matter of belief, what makes you uncomfortable about it? People often make statements about what societies are like in order to paint them in a particular way for rhetorical or propaganda purposes. I have a lot of experience seeing that about cultures I am familiar with, so when I see something that seems quite so absurd as this did to me about something that I feel I should know, it inspires me not to believe it. Evidently you have never had a similar experience. on edit: grammar fix, 2nd edit, changed as "well as you do" to "as well as you think you do"
- verticalscaler 3y ago
  > since I lived in the U.S a long time and never experienced this snapping thing I felt what, no way, this is crazy. Thank you for the candor. I agree that it is bananas. Definitely can see how it might be difficult to believe at first. > People often make statements about what societies are like in order to paint them in a particular way for rhetorical or propaganda purposes. Absolutely. What do you make of the folks in this thread echoing your sentiment that it must be made up and/or quickly changing tact and trying to pass it off as completely benign and normative by various explanations? I would argue trying to pretend like it is fake is a form of gaslighting/propaganda. Doesn't seem like you were engaged in that, especially with your response. You might be somewhat alarmed to know that initially one or two NYT staffers did in fact engage in exactly this behaviour until they were debunked ("I was there and it didn't happen" type posts on X). I am a tad alarmed. Hence my call for rumination. All of this is quite bizarre, don't you agree? What on earth is going on? > Evidently you have never had a similar experience. Of course I have. I am not even calling you particularly gullible actually. I think clearly on display down thread from you is an exploitation of your, and others like you, reasonableness.
Turing_Machine 3y ago
> You're essentially calling this person a liar for sharing an anecdote. Nonsense. If I share something I read in the newspaper, and you find out that it's not true, that doesn't make me a "liar". Gullible, perhaps, but not a liar.

screenobobeano 3y ago

[flagged]

jbullock35 3y ago
What do you make of Erik Wemple's investigation of the incident, which he describes at https://twitter.com/ErikWemple/status/1763646613778563225 https://twitter.com/ErikWemple/status/1763646613778563225? He is a media critic at the Washington Post -- is he lying about his incident, too?
barry-cotter 3y ago
Unless you’re willing to say who you are your claim to be an NYT employee is worthless.

kergonath 3y ago

Why are you so aggressive? They did not call the author a liar, just said that a specific point was unbelievable. Which it is for some people; this behaviour is completely alien to me for example. > Why is this even a matter of belief, what makes you uncomfortable about it? Nobody mentioned any kind of discomfort, merely bewilderment. You are tearing down a strawman you built based on a very uncharitable reading of a 1-sentence comment. That sentence even mentioned the author being a cultural outsider. > but I'm more curios about the knee jerk reaction. I am more curious about why you chose to escalate so quickly instead of taking this as an opportunity to discuss different viewpoints and experiences. Also, why you are so quick to attribute malice on such a flimsy basis. > This is worthy of further rumination. You present yourself as a model of cultural understanding (because clearly your attitude is better and one we should emulate), but you do sound a bit like a member of a cult. This is also worthy of some rumination.

verticalscaler 3y ago
Which cult am I a member of? P.S. - Dear dang, with regards to our previous discussion elsewhere. Observe the above.
- kergonath 3y ago
  I wasn’t going to elaborate because that’s way out of topic. But since you ask, here we go, at the risk of over-analysing. > Which cult am I a member of? I did not write that you were part of one, just that what you wrote sounded like it. In this case, one for which such strange behaviour would be normal and failing to grasp how outlandish it seems to anyone else, chiding an outsider who does not believe it. Which is of course internally inconsistent because you also seem to support the story’s author, who himself wrote how bizarre it was. Therefore I would think that you’d understand how someone else could find it unbelievable (which you seem to come to in your other comment). To be fair the main issue I have with your post, and why I replied at all, was how out of line its aggressiveness was compared to the OP, who merely expressed confusion. I don’t know who you are or what your perspective is on this, but there must be other ways of making your point. The fact that several other people in the thread have a hard time believing it should tell you how utterly strange it is. And yet, you interpret them as attacks to the author, which they really don’t seem to be (apart from a comment from a throwaway account, which gets rightly called out). > P.S. - Dear dang, with regards to our previous discussion elsewhere. Observe the above. Ok. First, that’s rude to drop me in a private conversation about which I don’t know anything line that. If you want to use my comments to make a point, at least keep it private. Second, he does not read every single comment. If you want to write something he’ll see, a good place would be your private discussion elsewhere.
  - verticalscaler 3y ago
    > I did not write that you were part of one, just that what you wrote sounded like it. > I don’t know who you are or what your perspective is on this, but there must be other ways of making your point. I'm struggling a bit here. Help me out, saying I sound like I'm in a cult is good manners? And which cult does it sound like I'm in?

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

since I lived in the U.S a long time and never experienced this snapping thing I felt what, no way, this is crazy. I mean sure if I went to a meeting of American Moonies and they started snapping I'd think wow that is what this subculture does, but I expected that the behavior of the NYT was still in the range of what I remembered as being normal. This is actually a common thing when you have lived in a place for a good amount of time and then leave, but keep awareness of the general cultural and political exports, you feel you know that society and what is it like but you perhaps do not know as well as you think you do. >Why is this even a matter of belief, what makes you uncomfortable about it? People often make statements about what societies are like in order to paint them in a particular way for rhetorical or propaganda purposes. I have a lot of experience seeing that about cultures I am familiar with, so when I see something that seems quite so absurd as this did to me about something that I feel I should know, it inspires me not to believe it. Evidently you have never had a similar experience. on edit: grammar fix, 2nd edit, changed as "well as you do" to "as well as you think you do"

verticalscaler 3y ago
> since I lived in the U.S a long time and never experienced this snapping thing I felt what, no way, this is crazy. Thank you for the candor. I agree that it is bananas. Definitely can see how it might be difficult to believe at first. > People often make statements about what societies are like in order to paint them in a particular way for rhetorical or propaganda purposes. Absolutely. What do you make of the folks in this thread echoing your sentiment that it must be made up and/or quickly changing tact and trying to pass it off as completely benign and normative by various explanations? I would argue trying to pretend like it is fake is a form of gaslighting/propaganda. Doesn't seem like you were engaged in that, especially with your response. You might be somewhat alarmed to know that initially one or two NYT staffers did in fact engage in exactly this behaviour until they were debunked ("I was there and it didn't happen" type posts on X). I am a tad alarmed. Hence my call for rumination. All of this is quite bizarre, don't you agree? What on earth is going on? > Evidently you have never had a similar experience. Of course I have. I am not even calling you particularly gullible actually. I think clearly on display down thread from you is an exploitation of your, and others like you, reasonableness.

Turing_Machine 3y ago

> You're essentially calling this person a liar for sharing an anecdote. Nonsense. If I share something I read in the newspaper, and you find out that it's not true, that doesn't make me a "liar". Gullible, perhaps, but not a liar.