7 ms·

Zoomable, translated version of the 15th century Mappa Mundi

152 points by gadtfly 3y ago

earino 3y ago
This was a really enjoyable couple of minutes. I was able to find some of the more ancient cities I've visited (Ceuta, for example), and see how they're represented. Now that we've seen how quickly digitized information becomes un-usuable, it's interesting to reflect that the actual physical Mappa Mundi will far outlive (barring fires/disasters) any of it's digital reflections.
imiric 3y ago
It's a shame that this kind of interesting and interactive learning experiences have been dispersed and relegated to obscure parts of the web, instead of being part of a central repository of knowledge. In my teens I used to spend hours marvelling at similar visualizations that were part of Encarta. Most of them were technically crude compared to what we can do today, so I feel that we lost a crucial opportunity to spread knowledge. While Wikipedia is great, it's mostly a static repository, and pales in comparison when it comes to engagement. I think there's still a chance for an organization to curate the content on Wikipedia, and make it interactive and engaging, since Wikimedia is clearly not interested.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- reddalo 3y ago
  I agree. I spent countless of hours on Encarta. The interactive experiences, the 360° maps, even the small quiz games were a beautiful way to learn and discover new things. Wikipedia has way more content, but not this kind of things. I wonder if there is a way to curate such content in a crowdsourced way, however.
- licnep 3y ago
  That's a great idea, a version of wikipedia with iframe embeds could allow for this, though it would be even better if these small websites could be directly uploaded by editors as html/js/css so they wouldnt depend on external websites and could be versioned and preserved.
- wara23arish 3y ago
  I also remember spending hours and hours on an old version of encarta. It had everything from geography to biology. Maybe the ipads they give to kids these days are similar but we haven’t experienced them?
tempodox 3y ago
Very nice work. And interesting to see that North isn't where I'd expected it to be on the map.
- gadtfly 3y ago
  There's a rotate button in a set of controls on the right.
  - tempodox 3y ago
    Yes, but then the writing is upside down.
    - gadtfly 3y ago
      The click-to-translate part seems to have broken since I posted this, which is bizarre. That was half the fun. Wait nvm I used the wrong link. dang can you change it to https://mostre.museogalileo.it/framauro/en/interactive-exploration/geographic-space/cartouches.html https://mostre.museogalileo.it/framauro/en/interactive-explo...
    - xtiansimon 3y ago
      Brilliant bit of UX work. I especially like the rotate or orientation feature. Once rotated 180 I immediately recognized similarities to the modern map. Very thoughtful design work
shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
In the baltic sea, the text translation reads "This sea is not navigated with map and compass but with a sounding-lead; and throughout here there are many inhabited islands" I wonder what a sounding-lead might be?
- rzmmm 3y ago
  Maybe gauging the depth of the water with a lead weight.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_sounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_sounding
  - shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
    Cool, thanks!
narag 3y ago
It's weird that it mentions the Sea of Cádiz, but not Cádiz City. Instead: Vejer ("Beger") Tarifa ("Terifa") and Gibraltar ("Zibelter"). The cities far from the coast are randomly placed. Actually, Mediterranean Sea seems mostly accurate and anything else gets deformed, more so as distance increases. See Africa.
- riffraff 3y ago
  portolan charts[0] were already common by the time this map was made, so coastal regions, especially in the mediterranean, were better documented. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portolan_chart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portolan_chart
azernik 3y ago
Interestingly varying levels of accuracy as you look at the Levant. The mapmakers have a very good idea of what cities lie on the coast and in which order, but the actual shape of the coast is completely unknown to them and the relation of inland sites to the known coastal ones is... rough. Interestingly: "Those who are expert, let them complete this Idumea and Palestina and Galilea with what I do not put - that is, the river Jordan, the Tiberian Sea, the Dead Sea and other places which it has not been possible to include"
ricardobayes 3y ago
It's also interesting they didn't put themselves in the middle of the map, as was common at the time. It's also fascinating how slow the technical evolution was at the time. The author makes direct references to Ptolemy (works dating around 100 AD).
Anduia 3y ago
I went to Venice in 2017 with a list of "must-sees," one of which was the Fra Mauro original map. I had previously seen a replica, and it was breathtaking. (That thing is eight feet tall, or 2.4 meters, with gold lettering and all) The map was housed in the Marciana Library in Venice. Unfortunately, nowhere on the internet did it mention that the map had been removed for restoration. This prevented me from seeing it in person, and perhaps I never will. Naively, I thought that the library's website would inform visitors about such changes. However, the reality is that website updates often lag behind changes in exhibits. Lesson learned: I now call the places I want to visit to confirm their hours and current offerings.
- HowardStark 3y ago
  Would you be willing to share your must-sees? I’m planning two trips to Italy this year and while I tend to make my own closer to the date of the trip (avoid pre-mature heartbreak if plans change) I think curated lists off the beaten path and with personality behind them are far more interesting.
- lolive 3y ago
  Sorry to hear that. I visited the museum Correr without knowing that that map was at the end of the museum. Discovering it right in front of me is a high time of my life.
NelsonMinar 3y ago
For an even earlier world map, the Beatus map from the 8th century is also remarkable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatus_map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatus_map The layout is mostly geographic although bears traces of a conceptual map as well. (Note: north is to the left). It's part of the larger book the Commentary on the Apocalypse which contains a lot of gorgeous illustrations. The original is lost but exists in many hand copies, starting from the 9th century. If you're ever in Northern Spain there's a museum in the town of Potes near the Santo Toribio de Liébana monastery where Beatus worked. https://centros.culturadecantabria.com/tower-of-infantado/ https://centros.culturadecantabria.com/tower-of-infantado/
araes 3y ago
Having not seen the map before, and noting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fra_Mauro_map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fra_Mauro_map it was apparently by a Venetian... Is it known why the Italia peninsula and most of the surrounding area has been rubbed away over time while most of the rest of the map looks fairly untouched? (Bulgaria might have a slight issue, yet nothing like the entire country being smeared) Did not see anything mentioned in the Europe or summary portion of the above article.
- fhars 3y ago
  Look, we live here... [points on map]
type0 3y ago
One of the famous mappa mundi errors is actually California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_California
- infradig 3y ago
  Wrong map.

152 points by gadtfly 3y ago

This was a really enjoyable couple of minutes. I was able to find some of the more ancient cities I've visited (Ceuta, for example), and see how they're represented. Now that we've seen how quickly digitized information becomes un-usuable, it's interesting to reflect that the actual physical Mappa Mundi will far outlive (barring fires/disasters) any of it's digital reflections.

imiric 3y ago

It's a shame that this kind of interesting and interactive learning experiences have been dispersed and relegated to obscure parts of the web, instead of being part of a central repository of knowledge. In my teens I used to spend hours marvelling at similar visualizations that were part of Encarta. Most of them were technically crude compared to what we can do today, so I feel that we lost a crucial opportunity to spread knowledge. While Wikipedia is great, it's mostly a static repository, and pales in comparison when it comes to engagement. I think there's still a chance for an organization to curate the content on Wikipedia, and make it interactive and engaging, since Wikimedia is clearly not interested.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
reddalo 3y ago
I agree. I spent countless of hours on Encarta. The interactive experiences, the 360° maps, even the small quiz games were a beautiful way to learn and discover new things. Wikipedia has way more content, but not this kind of things. I wonder if there is a way to curate such content in a crowdsourced way, however.
licnep 3y ago
That's a great idea, a version of wikipedia with iframe embeds could allow for this, though it would be even better if these small websites could be directly uploaded by editors as html/js/css so they wouldnt depend on external websites and could be versioned and preserved.
wara23arish 3y ago
I also remember spending hours and hours on an old version of encarta. It had everything from geography to biology. Maybe the ipads they give to kids these days are similar but we haven’t experienced them?

tempodox 3y ago

Very nice work. And interesting to see that North isn't where I'd expected it to be on the map.

gadtfly 3y ago
There's a rotate button in a set of controls on the right.
- tempodox 3y ago
  Yes, but then the writing is upside down.
  - gadtfly 3y ago
    The click-to-translate part seems to have broken since I posted this, which is bizarre. That was half the fun. Wait nvm I used the wrong link. dang can you change it to https://mostre.museogalileo.it/framauro/en/interactive-exploration/geographic-space/cartouches.html https://mostre.museogalileo.it/framauro/en/interactive-explo...
  - xtiansimon 3y ago
    Brilliant bit of UX work. I especially like the rotate or orientation feature. Once rotated 180 I immediately recognized similarities to the modern map. Very thoughtful design work

shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago

In the baltic sea, the text translation reads "This sea is not navigated with map and compass but with a sounding-lead; and throughout here there are many inhabited islands" I wonder what a sounding-lead might be?

rzmmm 3y ago
Maybe gauging the depth of the water with a lead weight.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_sounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_sounding
- shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
  Cool, thanks!

narag 3y ago

It's weird that it mentions the Sea of Cádiz, but not Cádiz City. Instead: Vejer ("Beger") Tarifa ("Terifa") and Gibraltar ("Zibelter"). The cities far from the coast are randomly placed. Actually, Mediterranean Sea seems mostly accurate and anything else gets deformed, more so as distance increases. See Africa.

riffraff 3y ago
portolan charts[0] were already common by the time this map was made, so coastal regions, especially in the mediterranean, were better documented. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portolan_chart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portolan_chart

azernik 3y ago

Interestingly varying levels of accuracy as you look at the Levant. The mapmakers have a very good idea of what cities lie on the coast and in which order, but the actual shape of the coast is completely unknown to them and the relation of inland sites to the known coastal ones is... rough. Interestingly: "Those who are expert, let them complete this Idumea and Palestina and Galilea with what I do not put - that is, the river Jordan, the Tiberian Sea, the Dead Sea and other places which it has not been possible to include"

ricardobayes 3y ago

It's also interesting they didn't put themselves in the middle of the map, as was common at the time. It's also fascinating how slow the technical evolution was at the time. The author makes direct references to Ptolemy (works dating around 100 AD).

Anduia 3y ago

I went to Venice in 2017 with a list of "must-sees," one of which was the Fra Mauro original map. I had previously seen a replica, and it was breathtaking. (That thing is eight feet tall, or 2.4 meters, with gold lettering and all) The map was housed in the Marciana Library in Venice. Unfortunately, nowhere on the internet did it mention that the map had been removed for restoration. This prevented me from seeing it in person, and perhaps I never will. Naively, I thought that the library's website would inform visitors about such changes. However, the reality is that website updates often lag behind changes in exhibits. Lesson learned: I now call the places I want to visit to confirm their hours and current offerings.

HowardStark 3y ago
Would you be willing to share your must-sees? I’m planning two trips to Italy this year and while I tend to make my own closer to the date of the trip (avoid pre-mature heartbreak if plans change) I think curated lists off the beaten path and with personality behind them are far more interesting.
lolive 3y ago
Sorry to hear that. I visited the museum Correr without knowing that that map was at the end of the museum. Discovering it right in front of me is a high time of my life.

NelsonMinar 3y ago

For an even earlier world map, the Beatus map from the 8th century is also remarkable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatus_map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatus_map The layout is mostly geographic although bears traces of a conceptual map as well. (Note: north is to the left). It's part of the larger book the Commentary on the Apocalypse which contains a lot of gorgeous illustrations. The original is lost but exists in many hand copies, starting from the 9th century. If you're ever in Northern Spain there's a museum in the town of Potes near the Santo Toribio de Liébana monastery where Beatus worked. https://centros.culturadecantabria.com/tower-of-infantado/ https://centros.culturadecantabria.com/tower-of-infantado/

araes 3y ago

Having not seen the map before, and noting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fra_Mauro_map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fra_Mauro_map it was apparently by a Venetian... Is it known why the Italia peninsula and most of the surrounding area has been rubbed away over time while most of the rest of the map looks fairly untouched? (Bulgaria might have a slight issue, yet nothing like the entire country being smeared) Did not see anything mentioned in the Europe or summary portion of the above article.

fhars 3y ago
Look, we live here... [points on map]

type0 3y ago

One of the famous mappa mundi errors is actually California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_California

infradig 3y ago
Wrong map.