6 ms·

> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. Real Estate will stop being a free money machin

> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system. Real Estate will stop being a free money machine when the government stops artificially restricting housing supply with single-use, single-family zoning.

__loam 3y ago
I agree that we should relax residential zoning laws but it does feel pretty naive to think the free market alone will solve this. I doubt everyone being adequately housed is even the optimal state of the free market.
- Geisterde 3y ago
  Its not a free market, we are closer to communist than we are free markets.
  - __loam 3y ago
    Communist would be building concrete prefabs until we could house everyone. That's one of the few things the Soviets did right.
    - scotty79 3y ago
      It's kind of funny how Chinese communists tried to build enough concrete prefabs not only for people to be housed but also for people who want to invest and it backfired spectacularly. The investor class is simply insatiable and you can't just satisfy the demand because it's always growing beyond all reason. You need to curb investors interest in real estate.
      - Geisterde 3y ago
        Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. Without it, there is no guarentee that a house will appreciate, in fact most homes would be considered depreciating assets. The cost of homes would plung 80, maybe 90%, and housing would be radically more affordable. Id be totally hosed, but I would find that a reasonable compromise.
        scotty79 3y ago
        > Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. So basically ban buying residential real estate on credit. That's a start. It would have interesting sideffects. One of them would showing clearly to the masses how unaffordable houses actually already are. Unfortunately rents would go up in the short term from increased demand from people who'd otherwise get a loan. So the rich people would keep buying them raising the prices till the new equilibrium is reached. Eventually rents would settle at how much people who rent can pay without starving and house prices would settle at whatever's the price of whatever asset that yields similar returns. I don't think it would be at 10% of today's prices
    - achates 3y ago
      The Soviet Union had chronic housing shortages. Multiple families would live squeezed together in one small apartment. The waiting list to get your own took years and years.
    - mlrtime 3y ago
      And In 1910, Manhattan reached a peak population of 2.2 million, from which it has never since rebounded. People's idea of what is appropriate housing have changed.
  - blactuary 3y ago
    If it's not a free market then your claim that price-fixing can't work can't possibly be true
rocqua 3y ago
It won't. Zoning is stupid and harmful in the US. But real-estate will always be rising in value. There is no way to make more land. And land you do nothing to gains value from others around you improving their own land. A land value tax that ignores the value of improvements on the land would make a dent. Freeloaders who buy a lot just to sell it later would see their gains evaporate. So land holders would seek to actually improve their land.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Land generaly should increase in value with Inflation. There is a lot of land to develop if zoning doesn't get in the way-
  - rocqua 3y ago
    Land increases in real value (beyond inflation) aswell. This is due to people building roads nearby, schools nearby, nicer houses nearby, etc. It's effectively the old adage 'location location location'. Currently another big driver of land value is zoning. But it isn't the only one. And until society starts degrading hard, the other drivers aren't going to slow down either. maybe with an exception for suburbia where the roads will need replacement even though the area doesn't raise enough tax revenue to pay for the replacement roads.
- oatmeal1 3y ago
  Real-estate does not increase in value in Japan. Land might increase in value, but the developments depreciate. Agree that land value tax is much better than property tax.
sensanaty 3y ago
The Netherlands doesn't have the US kind of weird zoning laws, yet we're still suffering a housing crisis. The power is simply way too skewed in favor of gigantic companies with coffers that are infinitely deep when you compare them to any individual looking for housing. They can buy dozens of building at a time and completely eek out individuals looking for a home for themselves and their families, and what can anyone do about it? Imo corporations should be legally barred from owning residential property of any kind, and there should be limits to what an individual can own for themselves as well, be it at the neighbourhood/district/city/state/country level. The overwhelmingly large majority of people need no more than a single home, the only people this kind of rule would affect negatively are the ones that aren't struggling in the first place.

__loam 3y ago

I agree that we should relax residential zoning laws but it does feel pretty naive to think the free market alone will solve this. I doubt everyone being adequately housed is even the optimal state of the free market.

Geisterde 3y ago
Its not a free market, we are closer to communist than we are free markets.
- __loam 3y ago
  Communist would be building concrete prefabs until we could house everyone. That's one of the few things the Soviets did right.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    It's kind of funny how Chinese communists tried to build enough concrete prefabs not only for people to be housed but also for people who want to invest and it backfired spectacularly. The investor class is simply insatiable and you can't just satisfy the demand because it's always growing beyond all reason. You need to curb investors interest in real estate.
    - Geisterde 3y ago
      Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. Without it, there is no guarentee that a house will appreciate, in fact most homes would be considered depreciating assets. The cost of homes would plung 80, maybe 90%, and housing would be radically more affordable. Id be totally hosed, but I would find that a reasonable compromise.
      - scotty79 3y ago
        > Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. So basically ban buying residential real estate on credit. That's a start. It would have interesting sideffects. One of them would showing clearly to the masses how unaffordable houses actually already are. Unfortunately rents would go up in the short term from increased demand from people who'd otherwise get a loan. So the rich people would keep buying them raising the prices till the new equilibrium is reached. Eventually rents would settle at how much people who rent can pay without starving and house prices would settle at whatever's the price of whatever asset that yields similar returns. I don't think it would be at 10% of today's prices
  - achates 3y ago
    The Soviet Union had chronic housing shortages. Multiple families would live squeezed together in one small apartment. The waiting list to get your own took years and years.
  - mlrtime 3y ago
    And In 1910, Manhattan reached a peak population of 2.2 million, from which it has never since rebounded. People's idea of what is appropriate housing have changed.
- blactuary 3y ago
  If it's not a free market then your claim that price-fixing can't work can't possibly be true

rocqua 3y ago

It won't. Zoning is stupid and harmful in the US. But real-estate will always be rising in value. There is no way to make more land. And land you do nothing to gains value from others around you improving their own land. A land value tax that ignores the value of improvements on the land would make a dent. Freeloaders who buy a lot just to sell it later would see their gains evaporate. So land holders would seek to actually improve their land.

bluGill 3y ago
Land generaly should increase in value with Inflation. There is a lot of land to develop if zoning doesn't get in the way-
- rocqua 3y ago
  Land increases in real value (beyond inflation) aswell. This is due to people building roads nearby, schools nearby, nicer houses nearby, etc. It's effectively the old adage 'location location location'. Currently another big driver of land value is zoning. But it isn't the only one. And until society starts degrading hard, the other drivers aren't going to slow down either. maybe with an exception for suburbia where the roads will need replacement even though the area doesn't raise enough tax revenue to pay for the replacement roads.
oatmeal1 3y ago
Real-estate does not increase in value in Japan. Land might increase in value, but the developments depreciate. Agree that land value tax is much better than property tax.

sensanaty 3y ago

The Netherlands doesn't have the US kind of weird zoning laws, yet we're still suffering a housing crisis. The power is simply way too skewed in favor of gigantic companies with coffers that are infinitely deep when you compare them to any individual looking for housing. They can buy dozens of building at a time and completely eek out individuals looking for a home for themselves and their families, and what can anyone do about it? Imo corporations should be legally barred from owning residential property of any kind, and there should be limits to what an individual can own for themselves as well, be it at the neighbourhood/district/city/state/country level. The overwhelmingly large majority of people need no more than a single home, the only people this kind of rule would affect negatively are the ones that aren't struggling in the first place.