5 ms·

The Crisis at Google

34 points by samspenc 3y ago

29athrowaway 3y ago
Google has monopoly market search in search, web browsers and mobile. They have access to more data than anyone else, so I'll put my bet on them to win the AI wars. First you need the data, then the money, then the power.
- BinRoo 3y ago
  In 1988, IBM had similar qualities.
  - trilbyglens 3y ago
    As do a trail of other corporate corpses.
  - 29athrowaway 3y ago
    And IBM is still around.
- Euphorbium 3y ago
  I dont use google search, browser or mobile. But youtube is inescapable.
  - flax 3y ago
    I do use google search, browser, and mobile. I do not use youtube.
  - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
    YouTube is only inescapable if you're addicted to video entertainment.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      Fortunately, I am.
      - key_peace_pulse 3y ago
        You probably already do, but you should use uBlock Origin or the chrome extension Clear Skies to skip ads...... .| .| Also, get outside more.
- sidibe 3y ago
  It's a safe bet that they will win. I see a lot of handwringing about bad responses from Gemini or the slowness to roll out ChatGPT competitor but with Gemini 1.5 they're caught up and in a much better position than others going forward because they have the infra (I think probably by far the lowest costs on this side compared to Microsoft, OpenAI, etc.), the data, and the researchers (just in terms of #s)
throwaway343233 3y ago
Sundar needs to go, period. All these articles undersell how bad the morale is at Google right now. It has been unpopular change after unpopular change, and Googlers have zero trust in the leadership. There's zero psychological safety anymore, and the environment is basically like this[1], but actually worse because even the "sister" teams in the same org are being very territorial. I don't think the next person is going to be better (because they'll be appointed by the very same board), but Google needs a change at the top. [1] https://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/microsoft-org-chart.jpg https://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/201...
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  Why would he go? Based on the stock price (which is what the board looks at when finding a new CEO), he's doing amazingly. It sucks for employees but unfortunately they have no say in how their CEO is chosen.
  - yaeng54 3y ago
    The stock doing well doesn't seem to actually suck for employees paid largely with stock grants. At least I suppose many on the outside will be thinking that as they question why the employees are complaining so much.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      Indeed, by that metric he's doing quite well.
  - jsnell 3y ago
    The share price isn't doing well though. Their peer companies have been growing in value faster on both short and long timescales. Their P/E is also quite low compared not only to other big tech companies, but even large companies in general. And that's at a time when Google should have been doing a victory lap, as a decade of bleeding edge research into AI pays off.
  - 3y ago
blah-yeah 3y ago
Having recently experienced an interview at Google, I feel scadenfreude. Their interviewers stood me up twice. And then, when I didn't pass the coding round, the HR reps I initially spoke with completely ignored me and passed me off to some other HR rep who said basically, "Sorry, they're busy. Thanks, goodbye." Not the level of professionalism I expected. scha·den·freu·de pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Nothing in this article really that hasn't been said clearly in 3 or 4 major pieces in the last month or so. There are growing calls for Google CEO Sundar Pichai to step down https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568016 Google's once happy offices feel the chill of layoffs https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39260956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39260956 A Leaked Memo from Google CEO Sundar Pichai Comes Amidst Employee Discontent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125467 Google employees blast 'profoundly boring' management lacking 'visionary leader' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39101384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39101384 (plus the whole Gemini thing)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
> the company’s Trust and Safety leadership called for volunteers to test Gemini’s outputs to prevent further blunders. How humiliating, for a company that doesn't want to do anything that doesn't scale.
- bananapub 3y ago
  what are you talking about? gemini etc have been open for internal testing for at least a couple of years, soliciting feedback on any topic. almost every new product is handled that way, it's just that lots of internal feedback is ignored, leading to regular and predictable PR disasters.
kkfx 3y ago
A small side note: actually there was very few blacks in the nazi army. So aside to the polemics it's worth to know this "error" was not so erroneous. Nazis have had black in their armies and have also had a Hebrew SS brigade.
alecco 3y ago
related from yesterday https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39573851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39573851 I think Pichai was a terrible CEO, but IMHO, changing the CEO is not going to fix anything. Google has serious culture issues and structural management problems. To turn the ship around they should restructure hard and get rid of the cancer. Re-focus on merit and clear goals. I seriously doubt they have the guts to do a restructuring. On one hand, Page and Brin probably don't want to risk rocking the boat and they have the lions share of voting shares. On the other hand, advertisers and government agencies have a lot of leverage over Google to force it to stay as woke as it is.
alecco 3y ago
> "Organizationally at this place, it's impossible to navigate and understand who's in rooms and who owns things,” one member of Google’s Trust and Safety team told me. “Maybe that's by design so that nobody can ever get in trouble for failure.”
- paleotrope 3y ago
  Ding ding ding. Humanitity 101
Solvency 3y ago
Google is a sham but let's not pretend like they give a shit. They don't have to innovate. They print ad money. Do you think morale at Meta was good when Zuckerberg was trying to hawk metaverse for years like a shitty tamale vendor? When FB became a global laughingstock? Sure it was! Do you think the board cares! NO. Because they PRINT MONEY.

34 points by samspenc 3y ago

Google has monopoly market search in search, web browsers and mobile. They have access to more data than anyone else, so I'll put my bet on them to win the AI wars. First you need the data, then the money, then the power.

BinRoo 3y ago
In 1988, IBM had similar qualities.
- trilbyglens 3y ago
  As do a trail of other corporate corpses.
- 29athrowaway 3y ago
  And IBM is still around.
Euphorbium 3y ago
I dont use google search, browser or mobile. But youtube is inescapable.
- flax 3y ago
  I do use google search, browser, and mobile. I do not use youtube.
- bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
  YouTube is only inescapable if you're addicted to video entertainment.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    Fortunately, I am.
    - key_peace_pulse 3y ago
      You probably already do, but you should use uBlock Origin or the chrome extension Clear Skies to skip ads...... .| .| Also, get outside more.
sidibe 3y ago
It's a safe bet that they will win. I see a lot of handwringing about bad responses from Gemini or the slowness to roll out ChatGPT competitor but with Gemini 1.5 they're caught up and in a much better position than others going forward because they have the infra (I think probably by far the lowest costs on this side compared to Microsoft, OpenAI, etc.), the data, and the researchers (just in terms of #s)

throwaway343233 3y ago

Sundar needs to go, period. All these articles undersell how bad the morale is at Google right now. It has been unpopular change after unpopular change, and Googlers have zero trust in the leadership. There's zero psychological safety anymore, and the environment is basically like this[1], but actually worse because even the "sister" teams in the same org are being very territorial. I don't think the next person is going to be better (because they'll be appointed by the very same board), but Google needs a change at the top. [1] https://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/microsoft-org-chart.jpg https://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/201...

satvikpendem 3y ago
Why would he go? Based on the stock price (which is what the board looks at when finding a new CEO), he's doing amazingly. It sucks for employees but unfortunately they have no say in how their CEO is chosen.
- yaeng54 3y ago
  The stock doing well doesn't seem to actually suck for employees paid largely with stock grants. At least I suppose many on the outside will be thinking that as they question why the employees are complaining so much.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    Indeed, by that metric he's doing quite well.
- jsnell 3y ago
  The share price isn't doing well though. Their peer companies have been growing in value faster on both short and long timescales. Their P/E is also quite low compared not only to other big tech companies, but even large companies in general. And that's at a time when Google should have been doing a victory lap, as a decade of bleeding edge research into AI pays off.
- 3y ago

blah-yeah 3y ago

Having recently experienced an interview at Google, I feel scadenfreude. Their interviewers stood me up twice. And then, when I didn't pass the coding round, the HR reps I initially spoke with completely ignored me and passed me off to some other HR rep who said basically, "Sorry, they're busy. Thanks, goodbye." Not the level of professionalism I expected. scha·den·freu·de pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

Nothing in this article really that hasn't been said clearly in 3 or 4 major pieces in the last month or so. There are growing calls for Google CEO Sundar Pichai to step down https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39568016 Google's once happy offices feel the chill of layoffs https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39260956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39260956 A Leaked Memo from Google CEO Sundar Pichai Comes Amidst Employee Discontent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125467 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125467 Google employees blast 'profoundly boring' management lacking 'visionary leader' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39101384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39101384 (plus the whole Gemini thing)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago

> the company’s Trust and Safety leadership called for volunteers to test Gemini’s outputs to prevent further blunders. How humiliating, for a company that doesn't want to do anything that doesn't scale.

bananapub 3y ago
what are you talking about? gemini etc have been open for internal testing for at least a couple of years, soliciting feedback on any topic. almost every new product is handled that way, it's just that lots of internal feedback is ignored, leading to regular and predictable PR disasters.

kkfx 3y ago

A small side note: actually there was very few blacks in the nazi army. So aside to the polemics it's worth to know this "error" was not so erroneous. Nazis have had black in their armies and have also had a Hebrew SS brigade.

alecco 3y ago

related from yesterday https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39573851 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39573851 I think Pichai was a terrible CEO, but IMHO, changing the CEO is not going to fix anything. Google has serious culture issues and structural management problems. To turn the ship around they should restructure hard and get rid of the cancer. Re-focus on merit and clear goals. I seriously doubt they have the guts to do a restructuring. On one hand, Page and Brin probably don't want to risk rocking the boat and they have the lions share of voting shares. On the other hand, advertisers and government agencies have a lot of leverage over Google to force it to stay as woke as it is.

alecco 3y ago

> "Organizationally at this place, it's impossible to navigate and understand who's in rooms and who owns things,” one member of Google’s Trust and Safety team told me. “Maybe that's by design so that nobody can ever get in trouble for failure.”

paleotrope 3y ago
Ding ding ding. Humanitity 101

Solvency 3y ago

Google is a sham but let's not pretend like they give a shit. They don't have to innovate. They print ad money. Do you think morale at Meta was good when Zuckerberg was trying to hawk metaverse for years like a shitty tamale vendor? When FB became a global laughingstock? Sure it was! Do you think the board cares! NO. Because they PRINT MONEY.