3 ms·

I wonder if silhouette/pattern disruption will become the norm (via reflective tape or adversarial attack), or if using physical means will always be playing ca

I wonder if silhouette/pattern disruption will become the norm (via reflective tape or adversarial attack), or if using physical means will always be playing catchup to model updates.

trhway 3y ago
a tank - 1000kw of heat - on a thermal camera is very hard to hide. And drones are frequently carry thermal in addition to standard camera. For smaller targets, like humans, thermal-stealth clothing plus standard background patterning would probably work to some degree, though I think that soon those autonomous drones will in huge numbers be spread on the battlefield and sit quietly waiting like landmines and would be able to identify by movements/etc their targets even when the targets are well-blended into the background.
- ben_w 3y ago
  There's an urban legend about AI and tanks whose punchline was that: on the battlefield all tanks looked Soviet, because the images of Soviet tanks in the training set were the blurry ones taken from the air. I don't know if anyone outside the actual developers (and given jamming perhaps not even them) really knows how accurate such onboard AI is right now.
  - trhway 3y ago
    >There's an urban legend about AI and tanks whose punchline was that: on the battlefield all tanks looked Soviet, because the images of Soviet tanks in the training set were the blurry ones taken from the air. to that I raise you the story of the Soviet mine carrying dogs who were trained to destroy tanks. As it happened they were trained using Soviet tanks. And Soviet tanks used diesel. German tanks were gasoline-powered... >I don't know if anyone outside the actual developers (and given jamming perhaps not even them) really knows how accurate such onboard AI is right now. The battlefield is constantly watched by a multitude of drones, including ones far and high, outside of jamming range, and with good optics. So, all the info is there, though not in the open naturally. It is reported by various sources that despite the jamming (Russia even installs the jamming right onto the tanks) and everything, 70% of armor is killed with drones currently. Though Eric Schmidt making such drones for Ukraine would know better :)

I wonder if silhouette/pattern disruption will become the norm (via reflective tape or adversarial attack), or if using physical means will always be playing catchup to model updates.

trhway 3y ago

a tank - 1000kw of heat - on a thermal camera is very hard to hide. And drones are frequently carry thermal in addition to standard camera. For smaller targets, like humans, thermal-stealth clothing plus standard background patterning would probably work to some degree, though I think that soon those autonomous drones will in huge numbers be spread on the battlefield and sit quietly waiting like landmines and would be able to identify by movements/etc their targets even when the targets are well-blended into the background.

ben_w 3y ago
There's an urban legend about AI and tanks whose punchline was that: on the battlefield all tanks looked Soviet, because the images of Soviet tanks in the training set were the blurry ones taken from the air. I don't know if anyone outside the actual developers (and given jamming perhaps not even them) really knows how accurate such onboard AI is right now.
- trhway 3y ago
  >There's an urban legend about AI and tanks whose punchline was that: on the battlefield all tanks looked Soviet, because the images of Soviet tanks in the training set were the blurry ones taken from the air. to that I raise you the story of the Soviet mine carrying dogs who were trained to destroy tanks. As it happened they were trained using Soviet tanks. And Soviet tanks used diesel. German tanks were gasoline-powered... >I don't know if anyone outside the actual developers (and given jamming perhaps not even them) really knows how accurate such onboard AI is right now. The battlefield is constantly watched by a multitude of drones, including ones far and high, outside of jamming range, and with good optics. So, all the info is there, though not in the open naturally. It is reported by various sources that despite the jamming (Russia even installs the jamming right onto the tanks) and everything, 70% of armor is killed with drones currently. Though Eric Schmidt making such drones for Ukraine would know better :)