4 ms·

Oh, hai :) After thinking about home automation on an on-and-off basis for several years, I have concluded that the only thing that's needed is automation of e

Oh, hai :) After thinking about home automation on an on-and-off basis for several years, I have concluded that the only thing that's needed is automation of electrical sockets. Being able to flip a physical switch and/or check its current state from an iPhone covers good 90% of automation needs. The 9.9% is a thermostat, a temperature sensor and a flood sensor for basement. The remaining 0.1% is exotic stuff to measure the magnetic field flow and a wind speed in a bathroom. And I am convinced that the first company to produce a no-nonsense WiFi-enabled drop-in replacements for conventional wall switches, junction boxes and sockets will wipe the competition clean. Ahem... now, back to your regular programming of raising $1M off geeks who get all excited about a random sensor having its own Twitter feed :)

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
humancell 15y ago
I agree completely ... it's not really interesting when it just goes to twitter. That's why it's designed to talk REST, EventedAPI, and MQTT to other software. The real value begins to grow when more complex rules systems can be applied to larger numbers of sensors, and then integrated with sensor data from your mobile phone, etc. You leave home ... the security is enabled ... home environment reflects you being "away". It's when all of this begins to reflect a more "neural" pattern that things get really interesting!
- huhtenberg 15y ago
  Really interesting in a geeky kind of way (to which I can relate completely), but practically speaking though - home automation has been around for a long time, and it didn't really go farther than thermostats, motion sensors + lights and security systems (that still need a hook up to the monitoring services to be useful). I remember tinkering with X.10 almost 10 years ago. Nothing much has changed, it's still engineers designing for engineers. Admittedly I haven't closely looked at the scene for a couple of years, but I researched the subject back then and remember seeing no home automation system that was designed with a notion of usability in mind. Lots of options - sure, plenty of buttons - you bet, perhaps a hierarchical menu with the depth of Cameron's dive - oh, that's a deluxe version :) It seemed that whoever designed those systems didn't actually use any of them. (Not to hijack the thread) There shouldn't be a remote, an existing iPhone should suffice. It should know which room I am in, and it should have relevant options based on that. Default to the electrical/heat/blinds and show all outlets and sockets. Allow to switch to other rooms, ideally in form of a floor plan. Make the remote work when I am not at home. Sell this as a kit of sockets, pass-through junctions, wall switches and a small form-factor controller box. Put it all on WiFi, and give me an iPhone app to control the box. Make it easy to pair the box with devices (show a list of available devices and let me claim them). Allow hooking up the box to the Internet service for out-of-house access (charge me for that too, that's a fair deal). Finally, put an effort into designing the UI and all visible physical parts. Not to be Nest-slick, but designed nonetheless. [1] is an example of what is not designed, but engineered. Feel the difference. Go to Europe to get inspired, if needs be. Basically build a system only if you actually have a personal need for it, and not because you have a handful of assorted sensors. And "they will come" :) -- [1] http://www.lutron.com/Products/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Switches/MaestroDimmerSwitch/Pages/Overview.aspx http://www.lutron.com/Products/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Sw...
josh33 15y ago
I think you're right about home automation. There is also potential for home analytics/intelligence as well. For example, water sub-meters on each water faucet could help conscientious water users conserve.
- emptyaccount 15y ago
  No need to have one on each faucet. All you need is one sensor! http://dub.washington.edu/djangosite/media/papers/tmpXLm_Hi.pdf http://dub.washington.edu/djangosite/media/papers/tmpXLm_Hi....
- arethuza 15y ago
  What I'd really want is a low-cost non-intrusive means of monitoring natural gas flow, that's where the bulk of my energy costs are.
  - maxerickson 15y ago
    How far do you get by monitoring whether the blower for your furnace is operating?
    - arethuza 15y ago
      Now that's a good idea! I could tell whether our central heating boiler is running by its electricity consumption (which will either be on/off) and measure what it actually consumes when it is on. Kind of obvious once you mention it - as all the best ideas are!
      - maxerickson 15y ago
        I've thought about it quite a bit, it wasn't off the top of my head; I would also like some sort of usage monitoring, but I'm not eager to tinker with gas lines or the insides of a furnace.
  - humancell 15y ago
    Couldn't you calculate this simply by monitoring the "run time" of the devices using the gas? If we can tell how long the furnace and/or water heater run, then you can do the math vs. the gas bill?
webwright 15y ago
Getting an SMS if one of my doors opened during the day might be nice. Drop in on light switches would be huge... But how do you manage drop in? If the consumer has to actually replace the switch with a "smart" switch, that's DOA (requires wiring, messing with the breaker box, etc).
- huhtenberg 15y ago
  > Getting an SMS if one of my doors opened during the day might be nice. And what will you do in response? :) > that's DOA I don't know what DOA is, but replacing a light switch is the same whether it comes from the Home Depot or from a home automation start-up.
  - KwanEsq 15y ago
    DOA is short for "dead on arrival".
  - webwright 15y ago
    If I got an SMS that my front door was opened in the middle of the day, I'd call my wife to see if she went home early. If she didn't, I'd call my neighbors and/or the cops. My point on light switches is that (unlike outlets, which could just have a pass-through unit) they require someone actually un-attach and re-attach wires, which many/most home owners aren't super comfortable with. Even if they are, it's a meaningful time investment in comparison.
- jonknee 15y ago
  Replacing a switch is one way, a pass through on the socket is another--you plug the smart device into the socket and your actual stuff into the smart device. That won't hit all devices (not everything is plugged into a socket), but would be a good way to get the more casual user involved.
snippyhollow 15y ago
Isn't what http://www.zigbee.org/Products/CertifiedProducts/ZigBeeSmartEnergy.aspx http://www.zigbee.org/Products/CertifiedProducts/ZigBeeSmart... are about? Siemens also has a project (formerly HOME) about automation of electric sockets. (I worked on it as an undergrad in 2007-2008.)
follower 15y ago
> automation of electrical sockets It seems to be surprisingly difficult to find a way to automate a power outlet without having to deal with mains wiring. There's this http://www.powerswitchtail.com/Pages/default.aspx http://www.powerswitchtail.com/Pages/default.aspx but it rarely seems to be in stock and doesn't offer a non-kit 240V version (which I want being outside the US). I recently discovered this http://www.pwrusb.com/powerUSB-digitaI0.html http://www.pwrusb.com/powerUSB-digitaI0.html and apparently it supports standalone operation but is considerably more expensive--although it also offers more controllable sockets. I've not played with one yet but it looks like a possibility. (Apparently also supports 240V operation with connector adapters...) In the past I've rewired the remote control of RF-controlled sockets but the signal's not very reliable.
jamesrcole 15y ago
> I have concluded that the only thing that's needed is automation of electrical sockets. I guess we're thinking of home automation in different ways, but the kind of automation I'd like is of cleaning.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

humancell 15y ago

I agree completely ... it's not really interesting when it just goes to twitter. That's why it's designed to talk REST, EventedAPI, and MQTT to other software. The real value begins to grow when more complex rules systems can be applied to larger numbers of sensors, and then integrated with sensor data from your mobile phone, etc. You leave home ... the security is enabled ... home environment reflects you being "away". It's when all of this begins to reflect a more "neural" pattern that things get really interesting!

huhtenberg 15y ago
Really interesting in a geeky kind of way (to which I can relate completely), but practically speaking though - home automation has been around for a long time, and it didn't really go farther than thermostats, motion sensors + lights and security systems (that still need a hook up to the monitoring services to be useful). I remember tinkering with X.10 almost 10 years ago. Nothing much has changed, it's still engineers designing for engineers. Admittedly I haven't closely looked at the scene for a couple of years, but I researched the subject back then and remember seeing no home automation system that was designed with a notion of usability in mind. Lots of options - sure, plenty of buttons - you bet, perhaps a hierarchical menu with the depth of Cameron's dive - oh, that's a deluxe version :) It seemed that whoever designed those systems didn't actually use any of them. (Not to hijack the thread) There shouldn't be a remote, an existing iPhone should suffice. It should know which room I am in, and it should have relevant options based on that. Default to the electrical/heat/blinds and show all outlets and sockets. Allow to switch to other rooms, ideally in form of a floor plan. Make the remote work when I am not at home. Sell this as a kit of sockets, pass-through junctions, wall switches and a small form-factor controller box. Put it all on WiFi, and give me an iPhone app to control the box. Make it easy to pair the box with devices (show a list of available devices and let me claim them). Allow hooking up the box to the Internet service for out-of-house access (charge me for that too, that's a fair deal). Finally, put an effort into designing the UI and all visible physical parts. Not to be Nest-slick, but designed nonetheless. [1] is an example of what is not designed, but engineered. Feel the difference. Go to Europe to get inspired, if needs be. Basically build a system only if you actually have a personal need for it, and not because you have a handful of assorted sensors. And "they will come" :) -- [1] http://www.lutron.com/Products/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Switches/MaestroDimmerSwitch/Pages/Overview.aspx http://www.lutron.com/Products/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Sw...

josh33 15y ago

I think you're right about home automation. There is also potential for home analytics/intelligence as well. For example, water sub-meters on each water faucet could help conscientious water users conserve.

emptyaccount 15y ago
No need to have one on each faucet. All you need is one sensor! http://dub.washington.edu/djangosite/media/papers/tmpXLm_Hi.pdf http://dub.washington.edu/djangosite/media/papers/tmpXLm_Hi....
arethuza 15y ago
What I'd really want is a low-cost non-intrusive means of monitoring natural gas flow, that's where the bulk of my energy costs are.
- maxerickson 15y ago
  How far do you get by monitoring whether the blower for your furnace is operating?
  - arethuza 15y ago
    Now that's a good idea! I could tell whether our central heating boiler is running by its electricity consumption (which will either be on/off) and measure what it actually consumes when it is on. Kind of obvious once you mention it - as all the best ideas are!
    - maxerickson 15y ago
      I've thought about it quite a bit, it wasn't off the top of my head; I would also like some sort of usage monitoring, but I'm not eager to tinker with gas lines or the insides of a furnace.
- humancell 15y ago
  Couldn't you calculate this simply by monitoring the "run time" of the devices using the gas? If we can tell how long the furnace and/or water heater run, then you can do the math vs. the gas bill?

webwright 15y ago

Getting an SMS if one of my doors opened during the day might be nice. Drop in on light switches would be huge... But how do you manage drop in? If the consumer has to actually replace the switch with a "smart" switch, that's DOA (requires wiring, messing with the breaker box, etc).

huhtenberg 15y ago
> Getting an SMS if one of my doors opened during the day might be nice. And what will you do in response? :) > that's DOA I don't know what DOA is, but replacing a light switch is the same whether it comes from the Home Depot or from a home automation start-up.
- KwanEsq 15y ago
  DOA is short for "dead on arrival".
- webwright 15y ago
  If I got an SMS that my front door was opened in the middle of the day, I'd call my wife to see if she went home early. If she didn't, I'd call my neighbors and/or the cops. My point on light switches is that (unlike outlets, which could just have a pass-through unit) they require someone actually un-attach and re-attach wires, which many/most home owners aren't super comfortable with. Even if they are, it's a meaningful time investment in comparison.
jonknee 15y ago
Replacing a switch is one way, a pass through on the socket is another--you plug the smart device into the socket and your actual stuff into the smart device. That won't hit all devices (not everything is plugged into a socket), but would be a good way to get the more casual user involved.

snippyhollow 15y ago

Isn't what http://www.zigbee.org/Products/CertifiedProducts/ZigBeeSmartEnergy.aspx http://www.zigbee.org/Products/CertifiedProducts/ZigBeeSmart... are about? Siemens also has a project (formerly HOME) about automation of electric sockets. (I worked on it as an undergrad in 2007-2008.)

follower 15y ago

> automation of electrical sockets It seems to be surprisingly difficult to find a way to automate a power outlet without having to deal with mains wiring. There's this http://www.powerswitchtail.com/Pages/default.aspx http://www.powerswitchtail.com/Pages/default.aspx but it rarely seems to be in stock and doesn't offer a non-kit 240V version (which I want being outside the US). I recently discovered this http://www.pwrusb.com/powerUSB-digitaI0.html http://www.pwrusb.com/powerUSB-digitaI0.html and apparently it supports standalone operation but is considerably more expensive--although it also offers more controllable sockets. I've not played with one yet but it looks like a possibility. (Apparently also supports 240V operation with connector adapters...) In the past I've rewired the remote control of RF-controlled sockets but the signal's not very reliable.

jamesrcole 15y ago

> I have concluded that the only thing that's needed is automation of electrical sockets. I guess we're thinking of home automation in different ways, but the kind of automation I'd like is of cleaning.