4 ms·

That’s nice. I still want a loud, manual, fun gas car. But I guess if you just want an appliance an electric car will do just fine.

verve_rat 3y ago
And you should probably be allowed one, assuming total cost of all externalities is appropriately priced in. And possibly only for use on private roads and tracks because there doesn't seem to be a fair price for poisoning the air that the other people in your city/town/village breathe.
- sonofhans 3y ago
  I agree with you, but consider — for an Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle, wear and tear on the tires probably contributes more to local environmental degradation than the fossil fuels used. EVs have no answer to that, nor will they — tires are by nature ablative. IOW we need to factor externalities into EVs as well, just like IC cars.
  - cedricd 3y ago
    I think a statement like that merits a source. You mentioned tires being ablative. 30k miles of tires being worn off ~= few pounds of material vs 600 gallons of fuel (assuming a 50mpg ulev).
    - barbazoo 3y ago
      Exactly. My driving created ~400 kg CO2 a month, no way tires are contributing anything close to that. How would they even.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    If only there were some way to use harder materials like metal on metal instead of rubber on asphalt. One which doesn't ablade as much. Of course, you'd need to have some system of metal lines on the ground, and have vehicles with matching metal wheels. Those vehicles would be confined to run on these metal road line things, but you could put them in areas where there area lot of people in a small space and people could use them to move from place to place. I know it's a crazy idea so it'll never work but just wonder with me for a second. What if we could build such things? What a wonderful world that might be!
  - alx_the_new_guy 3y ago
    Break pads also. But from my understanding: - AWD, especially of the fancy computer controlled type, in electric cars is much easier to produce, since you don't have to mechanically transfer power to all the wheels, and should decrease tyre wear end emissions by spreading the load from acceleration to all the tyres - brake pads also a significant source of similar pollution, and there has been an effort to make them rely more on adhesive friction, decrease metal contents and what not, so maybe something similar is possible/being done already with tyres. Also, regen braking is probably more gentle on tyres and does not use brakes at all, so it's a win-win also. Though both of those might be cancelled out by evs being generally heavier bc batteries and what not. People being unable to install obnoxiously loud exhaust is a plus too, wish the same was true for obnoxiously loud sound systems.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      brake pads on Teslas don't get used as much, thanks to regenerative braking though, to the point that they start rusting (until Tesla updated the firmware). So EVs come out ahead there. The downside of EVs getting better batteries is that the range anxiety goes away, and because the car speakers are powered from those same batteries, EVs with extremely loud stereos will be able to blast their music for all of their neighbors to enjoy for an extra long time without sacrificing the vehicles ability to get there and back.
    - barbazoo 3y ago
      I very rarely even use the brake pads on my EV thanks to regen braking. They’ll last forever.

verve_rat 3y ago

And you should probably be allowed one, assuming total cost of all externalities is appropriately priced in. And possibly only for use on private roads and tracks because there doesn't seem to be a fair price for poisoning the air that the other people in your city/town/village breathe.

sonofhans 3y ago
I agree with you, but consider — for an Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle, wear and tear on the tires probably contributes more to local environmental degradation than the fossil fuels used. EVs have no answer to that, nor will they — tires are by nature ablative. IOW we need to factor externalities into EVs as well, just like IC cars.
- cedricd 3y ago
  I think a statement like that merits a source. You mentioned tires being ablative. 30k miles of tires being worn off ~= few pounds of material vs 600 gallons of fuel (assuming a 50mpg ulev).
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    Exactly. My driving created ~400 kg CO2 a month, no way tires are contributing anything close to that. How would they even.
- fragmede 3y ago
  If only there were some way to use harder materials like metal on metal instead of rubber on asphalt. One which doesn't ablade as much. Of course, you'd need to have some system of metal lines on the ground, and have vehicles with matching metal wheels. Those vehicles would be confined to run on these metal road line things, but you could put them in areas where there area lot of people in a small space and people could use them to move from place to place. I know it's a crazy idea so it'll never work but just wonder with me for a second. What if we could build such things? What a wonderful world that might be!
- alx_the_new_guy 3y ago
  Break pads also. But from my understanding: - AWD, especially of the fancy computer controlled type, in electric cars is much easier to produce, since you don't have to mechanically transfer power to all the wheels, and should decrease tyre wear end emissions by spreading the load from acceleration to all the tyres - brake pads also a significant source of similar pollution, and there has been an effort to make them rely more on adhesive friction, decrease metal contents and what not, so maybe something similar is possible/being done already with tyres. Also, regen braking is probably more gentle on tyres and does not use brakes at all, so it's a win-win also. Though both of those might be cancelled out by evs being generally heavier bc batteries and what not. People being unable to install obnoxiously loud exhaust is a plus too, wish the same was true for obnoxiously loud sound systems.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    brake pads on Teslas don't get used as much, thanks to regenerative braking though, to the point that they start rusting (until Tesla updated the firmware). So EVs come out ahead there. The downside of EVs getting better batteries is that the range anxiety goes away, and because the car speakers are powered from those same batteries, EVs with extremely loud stereos will be able to blast their music for all of their neighbors to enjoy for an extra long time without sacrificing the vehicles ability to get there and back.
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    I very rarely even use the brake pads on my EV thanks to regen braking. They’ll last forever.