7 ms·

Vibrating vests translate music for deaf concertgoers (2023)

54 points by sargstuff 3y ago

lwansbrough 3y ago
I've had a Subpac for years, never really considered the applications for the deaf. But it would be great. Really, seriously elevates music. But I imagine you get a lot of the same feeling already during concerts.
krzat 3y ago
It's fascinating how plug & play our brain is. Just consistently supply information to it and voila, you have a new sense. One day we may have a marketplace where you can purchase a sense of north or your spouse's body temperature, it will be interesting and weird.
- Vecr 3y ago
  The sense of north is (was) already a thing. It kind of sucked though, and injecting a HUD into the front of a night vision tube is a lot more practical.
  - edwcross 3y ago
    I've seen a few hacky projects (e. g. https://www.carlosterminel.com/wearable-compass https://www.carlosterminel.com/wearable-compass) over the years about haptic belts, and I've been wanting to try one of these, but I've never seen them commercialized. Have you tried them? Otherwise, could you please describe why the sense of north "kind of sucked"? In my experience, having a flagship Android phone with unreliable compass such that I cannot even get my bearings when leaving a subway station, is extremely annoying. Such a belt would seem more useful to me.
- vincnetas 3y ago
  There are languages without the terms "Left, Right, Front, and Behind." These cultures use "North, South, East, and West" their whole lives no matter if they are in a room or in the woods. The result is a compass brain. They always know how they are oriented. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.htm...
  - hinkley 3y ago
    I’m curious how or if that affects physical training, like gymnastics or martial arts.
    - hanniabu 3y ago
      No, they don't magically have some sense of north. They're just used to using it so much that they have a lot of points of reference to know which direction is which no matter where they are.
      - anononaut 3y ago
        It's just a succinct abstraction.
      - arjvik 3y ago
        Not necessarily just a sense of reference, but also a practice of always keeping in mind what direction one is when changing direction (mentally summing up the deltas in direction). I do this when driving - I always know what direction I'm headed, even in an unfamiliar place (unless there are a ton of non-right-angle turns that confuse me, and then I have to check a map).
      - hinkley 3y ago
        Blocking a punch or doing a kata also has no concept of north. It's usually bilateral. So if you don't have left or right... Do you pretend your face is north and instruct that way?
        thfuran 3y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean. Whichever way you happen to be facing, you can use an earth-relative coordinate system to disambiguate limbs rather than a person-relative one. I guess don't practice martial arts while standing on the north or south pole and you'll be fine.
        3y ago
radarsat1 3y ago
Reminds me of Cutaneous Grooves (2003) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1076/jnmr.32.4.369.18856 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1076/jnmr.32.4.369.18... Although that idea was more about using haptics as a medium to compose explicitly for rather than translate existing music to.
- keville 3y ago
  This article[1] mentions a composer who "composed primarily for the vibrations and included the music after the initial layout of the haptic composition." We used to put on whatever 3D glasses the theater was providing for big new 3D movies; why not don a vest to listen to Deadmau5? [1] https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/live-music-deaf-audiences-vibrating-vests/ https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/live-music-deaf-aud...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dang 3y ago
Url changed from https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/15b1d3z/vibrating_vests_translate_music_for_deaf/ https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/15b1d3z/vibrating_..., which points to this.
gnicholas 3y ago
This guy does a lot of great work on sensory substitution. [1] He runs a company that makes tools that help with tinnitus and other chronic issues/disabilities, and he writes books about the brain. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c1lqFXHvqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c1lqFXHvqI
whartung 3y ago
I wonder if they would need a vest at the last hard rock/metal concert I went to. Sheesh, I think they almost blew off my glasses with one of their drum/bass hits that night. Its interesting that now we have tech to let the deaf participate in concert events while at the same time you have folks like me cramming earplugs as deep as they'll go to be able to enjoy them comfortably.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  Not even just concerts. I went to a movie theater recently and could not believe how deafeningly loud it was. This was for a stupid comedy film, not a boomy action flick.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    I just saw Dune part 2 at the local IMAX. It was crazy loud. My SO wore earplugs throughout, and felt that was a comfortable level... The sad part was they didn't really use the dynamic range, there was so much loud music and sounds so often, that the really epic moments didn't stand out in that sense.
- RajT88 3y ago
  The show which you could feel the music the most (at least that I have been to) is GWAR. You'd think they wouldn't have great audio guys working on their shows, but you'd be wrong. The drums, the guitars, the bass, it all rumbles through you in the best way. If you're deaf, go check out a GWAR show! Bring a rain poncho, if you're not familiar with the band.
- chiph 3y ago
  I used to work for the firm that sells "The Vest", which helps people with cystic fibrosis and other lung problems clear their airways (I worked on a different product). It rapidly inflates/deflates to vibrate the chest cavity (not unlike attending a metal concert and standing in front of the speaker stack) to dislodge mucus. Using it can significantly increase the life span of people who haven't/can't have a lung transplant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZbDcPiJv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZbDcPiJv0
CivBase 3y ago
I've never understood this kind of thing. My immediate impression - as someone with hearing who has never tried one of these vests - is not that deaf people are being included, but rather they're being given an entirely separate experience. It's almost like if I went to a Taylor Swift concert but brought my headphones and listened to Bon Jovi the whole time. How do you "translate" music into vibrations while preserving the feeling created by the original work? Do these vests actually create a similar experience for deaf people or are they just something novel to occupy themselves with while everyone else is listening to the music? Not trying to be cynical here. I'm genuinely curious if anyone can speak to this from experience.
- logiduck 3y ago
  > How do you "translate" music into vibrations Is there anything to translate? Music is vibrations to begin with.
  - CivBase 3y ago
    Yes but the experience of listening to music is nothing like the experience of someone vibrating your chest. Our brains treat those sensations as very different things.
    - lukaslalinsky 3y ago
      Our brains and other sensory apparatus are extremely adaptable. If one doesn't know anything about the sensation of sound, they can learn to substitute it without it actually being a substitute to them.
- schwartzworld 3y ago
  > Do these vests actually create a similar experience for deaf people I don't think there's any technology that could make a deaf person feel the difference between major and minor or appreciate counterpoint or whatever, but I don't think that's a standard anybody would expect. Accessibility doesn't mean giving everyone identical experiences because it's impossible. But do you and I even hear the same thing when we listen to the same music? Probably not, or else we'd have the same opinion of it. Creating an experience we all can enjoy is worth it, even if it's never going to be the same. It reminds me of Mr Holland's Opus.
renewiltord 3y ago
I was in a Kickstarter for https://www.woojer.com/ https://www.woojer.com/ and it was kind of fun. At one point, I had that hooked up to some music, my Oculus Quest hooked up to 3D video. It was fun enough, but a lot of harness and cable stuff so I didn't end up using it that much.

54 points by sargstuff 3y ago

I've had a Subpac for years, never really considered the applications for the deaf. But it would be great. Really, seriously elevates music. But I imagine you get a lot of the same feeling already during concerts.

krzat 3y ago

It's fascinating how plug & play our brain is. Just consistently supply information to it and voila, you have a new sense. One day we may have a marketplace where you can purchase a sense of north or your spouse's body temperature, it will be interesting and weird.

Vecr 3y ago
The sense of north is (was) already a thing. It kind of sucked though, and injecting a HUD into the front of a night vision tube is a lot more practical.
- edwcross 3y ago
  I've seen a few hacky projects (e. g. https://www.carlosterminel.com/wearable-compass https://www.carlosterminel.com/wearable-compass) over the years about haptic belts, and I've been wanting to try one of these, but I've never seen them commercialized. Have you tried them? Otherwise, could you please describe why the sense of north "kind of sucked"? In my experience, having a flagship Android phone with unreliable compass such that I cannot even get my bearings when leaving a subway station, is extremely annoying. Such a belt would seem more useful to me.
vincnetas 3y ago
There are languages without the terms "Left, Right, Front, and Behind." These cultures use "North, South, East, and West" their whole lives no matter if they are in a room or in the woods. The result is a compass brain. They always know how they are oriented. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.htm...
- hinkley 3y ago
  I’m curious how or if that affects physical training, like gymnastics or martial arts.
  - hanniabu 3y ago
    No, they don't magically have some sense of north. They're just used to using it so much that they have a lot of points of reference to know which direction is which no matter where they are.
    - anononaut 3y ago
      It's just a succinct abstraction.
    - arjvik 3y ago
      Not necessarily just a sense of reference, but also a practice of always keeping in mind what direction one is when changing direction (mentally summing up the deltas in direction). I do this when driving - I always know what direction I'm headed, even in an unfamiliar place (unless there are a ton of non-right-angle turns that confuse me, and then I have to check a map).
    - hinkley 3y ago
      Blocking a punch or doing a kata also has no concept of north. It's usually bilateral. So if you don't have left or right... Do you pretend your face is north and instruct that way?
      - thfuran 3y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean. Whichever way you happen to be facing, you can use an earth-relative coordinate system to disambiguate limbs rather than a person-relative one. I guess don't practice martial arts while standing on the north or south pole and you'll be fine.
        3y ago

radarsat1 3y ago

Reminds me of Cutaneous Grooves (2003) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1076/jnmr.32.4.369.18856 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1076/jnmr.32.4.369.18... Although that idea was more about using haptics as a medium to compose explicitly for rather than translate existing music to.

keville 3y ago
This article[1] mentions a composer who "composed primarily for the vibrations and included the music after the initial layout of the haptic composition." We used to put on whatever 3D glasses the theater was providing for big new 3D movies; why not don a vest to listen to Deadmau5? [1] https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/live-music-deaf-audiences-vibrating-vests/ https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/live-music-deaf-aud...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dang 3y ago

Url changed from https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/15b1d3z/vibrating_vests_translate_music_for_deaf/ https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/15b1d3z/vibrating_..., which points to this.

gnicholas 3y ago

This guy does a lot of great work on sensory substitution. [1] He runs a company that makes tools that help with tinnitus and other chronic issues/disabilities, and he writes books about the brain. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c1lqFXHvqI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c1lqFXHvqI

whartung 3y ago

I wonder if they would need a vest at the last hard rock/metal concert I went to. Sheesh, I think they almost blew off my glasses with one of their drum/bass hits that night. Its interesting that now we have tech to let the deaf participate in concert events while at the same time you have folks like me cramming earplugs as deep as they'll go to be able to enjoy them comfortably.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Not even just concerts. I went to a movie theater recently and could not believe how deafeningly loud it was. This was for a stupid comedy film, not a boomy action flick.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  I just saw Dune part 2 at the local IMAX. It was crazy loud. My SO wore earplugs throughout, and felt that was a comfortable level... The sad part was they didn't really use the dynamic range, there was so much loud music and sounds so often, that the really epic moments didn't stand out in that sense.
RajT88 3y ago
The show which you could feel the music the most (at least that I have been to) is GWAR. You'd think they wouldn't have great audio guys working on their shows, but you'd be wrong. The drums, the guitars, the bass, it all rumbles through you in the best way. If you're deaf, go check out a GWAR show! Bring a rain poncho, if you're not familiar with the band.
chiph 3y ago
I used to work for the firm that sells "The Vest", which helps people with cystic fibrosis and other lung problems clear their airways (I worked on a different product). It rapidly inflates/deflates to vibrate the chest cavity (not unlike attending a metal concert and standing in front of the speaker stack) to dislodge mucus. Using it can significantly increase the life span of people who haven't/can't have a lung transplant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZbDcPiJv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZbDcPiJv0

CivBase 3y ago

I've never understood this kind of thing. My immediate impression - as someone with hearing who has never tried one of these vests - is not that deaf people are being included, but rather they're being given an entirely separate experience. It's almost like if I went to a Taylor Swift concert but brought my headphones and listened to Bon Jovi the whole time. How do you "translate" music into vibrations while preserving the feeling created by the original work? Do these vests actually create a similar experience for deaf people or are they just something novel to occupy themselves with while everyone else is listening to the music? Not trying to be cynical here. I'm genuinely curious if anyone can speak to this from experience.

logiduck 3y ago
> How do you "translate" music into vibrations Is there anything to translate? Music is vibrations to begin with.
- CivBase 3y ago
  Yes but the experience of listening to music is nothing like the experience of someone vibrating your chest. Our brains treat those sensations as very different things.
  - lukaslalinsky 3y ago
    Our brains and other sensory apparatus are extremely adaptable. If one doesn't know anything about the sensation of sound, they can learn to substitute it without it actually being a substitute to them.
schwartzworld 3y ago
> Do these vests actually create a similar experience for deaf people I don't think there's any technology that could make a deaf person feel the difference between major and minor or appreciate counterpoint or whatever, but I don't think that's a standard anybody would expect. Accessibility doesn't mean giving everyone identical experiences because it's impossible. But do you and I even hear the same thing when we listen to the same music? Probably not, or else we'd have the same opinion of it. Creating an experience we all can enjoy is worth it, even if it's never going to be the same. It reminds me of Mr Holland's Opus.

renewiltord 3y ago

I was in a Kickstarter for https://www.woojer.com/ https://www.woojer.com/ and it was kind of fun. At one point, I had that hooked up to some music, my Oculus Quest hooked up to 3D video. It was fun enough, but a lot of harness and cable stuff so I didn't end up using it that much.