3 ms·

it feels perverse that their pay could be inversely proportional to how much they prevent other people from getting.

sp332 3y ago
They argued, successfully, that Musk mislead the board when they approved his payout. They are being paid by Tesla for prptecting Tesla's money. For every dollar they are asking for, they saved shareholders almost 9 dolars.
- DoesntMatter22 3y ago
  Except in reality they are going to vote on this again and musk is likely going to get a similar amount of money. I've yet to see any actual shareholders say they had an issue with him being paid. If this judge actually gives them 5 billion its going to nuke the future of Delaware as a business state. What's happening is unprecedented.
  - hnburnsy 3y ago
    Exactly, what CEO is going to want to incorporate in a state where judges can nuke your pay package and then force your company to pay for the nuking?
    - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
      I think the threat isn't even pay packages but the fact that truly spurious litigation could set companies back billions. It's not worth the risk. Some will stay but many will migrate out
  - jeffreportmill1 3y ago
    I’m an actual shareholder, and I was furious over the 50B compensation package. Musk was already an investor with billions of dollars of incentive to do a good job. It was nothing short of fraud to pack the board with friends and relatives and push through a CEO pay package orders of magnitude greater than the already exorbitant US CEO pay. He is greedy, selfish and criminally insane. I’m not even sure he works at Tesla anymore. Seems more preoccupied with Twitter and rockets and robots and drilling holes and how he didn’t get his share of the AI revolution. He’s a gambling addict - if you sent 1000 gamblers into a casino with 1000 dollars, a dozen would come out with 1 million. One of them would be name Elon. He’s a lucky psychopath, not a misunderstood genius.
    - leereeves 3y ago
      Where do you think Tesla stock would be without Musk? Would it have gained over $500B in value over the last 6 years? > if you sent 1000 gamblers into a casino with 1000 dollars, a dozen would come out with 1 million. No. The odds of winning a 1000x return in a casino would be less than 1 in 1000, and you'd be lucky if one of them came out with a million (as the others lost it all).
      - browningstreet 3y ago
        Farther ahead. Musk has messed up so much it’s unbelievable. He promised $25K cars and FSD and instead got distracted by Twitter and instead shipped an overpriced truck. He’s suing OpenAI for going off-mission but that’s also exactly what he’s done. He also keeps messing with the residual value of the cars people bought and I, for one, love my Model Y but would never buy anything from Musk again. That said, I would also not buy any EV that connects to any other charging network, so Tesla the company can build great stuff but he keeps the company off-kilter.
        leereeves 3y ago
        Musk makes big bets. 1000x bets, as GGP said. You can't expect all of them to work out. If you ask for a CEO who would keep the company on a steady course, you'll get a CEO who doesn't make those bets. Actually it might be time now for Tesla to switch to that CEO. It's hard to imagine another 1000x bet paying off for Tesla from its current value. But that wasn't the case in 2018 when this pay package was decided, when Tesla was valued at only $50B (and that value was already factoring in high growth expectations).
        browningstreet 3y ago
        The products were already designed and in the release pipeline at the time. He's done very little since. In fact, all his bad actions started around then. Elon is longer the person who set Tesla on the 3/Y path. And Tesla couldn't possibly have delivered less innovation (vs operations) since the 3/Y. Personally, when I see how hard most of the other manufacturers have struggled to meet product/EV outcomes Tesla set 5+ years ago.. I think of the lost potential of Tesla considering they haven't kept pace with their own standard since Elon lost the plot. Maybe the $25K car-to-come is up to par, but not if the Cybertruck is to go by.
- cute_boi 3y ago
  How can board be misled by elon musk. The board took action on behalf of their own self interest. And, if there is voting again I am sure Elon will win.
  - jeffreportmill1 3y ago
    Misled? They were self dealing. The board returned 750M of stolen funds just to avoid prosecution. Friends and relatives of Elon, awarding themselves billions because they were guarding the vault and they could.
- Arnt 3y ago
  Are they asking for actual money, or best-case money? It seems like the former from the text in the article, but that's hard to believe. I was of the impression that the case was about contingency payout. If Tesla stock appreciates by 600% in the next few years, then Tesla has to pay Elon Musk a fantastic amount. 600% if kind of fantastic too. If the lawyers are asking for conditional reimbursement that can be that large in the same fantastic circumstances then I don't see what's wrong about it.

They argued, successfully, that Musk mislead the board when they approved his payout. They are being paid by Tesla for prptecting Tesla's money. For every dollar they are asking for, they saved shareholders almost 9 dolars.

DoesntMatter22 3y ago
Except in reality they are going to vote on this again and musk is likely going to get a similar amount of money. I've yet to see any actual shareholders say they had an issue with him being paid. If this judge actually gives them 5 billion its going to nuke the future of Delaware as a business state. What's happening is unprecedented.
- hnburnsy 3y ago
  Exactly, what CEO is going to want to incorporate in a state where judges can nuke your pay package and then force your company to pay for the nuking?
  - DoesntMatter22 3y ago
    I think the threat isn't even pay packages but the fact that truly spurious litigation could set companies back billions. It's not worth the risk. Some will stay but many will migrate out
- jeffreportmill1 3y ago
  I’m an actual shareholder, and I was furious over the 50B compensation package. Musk was already an investor with billions of dollars of incentive to do a good job. It was nothing short of fraud to pack the board with friends and relatives and push through a CEO pay package orders of magnitude greater than the already exorbitant US CEO pay. He is greedy, selfish and criminally insane. I’m not even sure he works at Tesla anymore. Seems more preoccupied with Twitter and rockets and robots and drilling holes and how he didn’t get his share of the AI revolution. He’s a gambling addict - if you sent 1000 gamblers into a casino with 1000 dollars, a dozen would come out with 1 million. One of them would be name Elon. He’s a lucky psychopath, not a misunderstood genius.
  - leereeves 3y ago
    Where do you think Tesla stock would be without Musk? Would it have gained over $500B in value over the last 6 years? > if you sent 1000 gamblers into a casino with 1000 dollars, a dozen would come out with 1 million. No. The odds of winning a 1000x return in a casino would be less than 1 in 1000, and you'd be lucky if one of them came out with a million (as the others lost it all).
    - browningstreet 3y ago
      Farther ahead. Musk has messed up so much it’s unbelievable. He promised $25K cars and FSD and instead got distracted by Twitter and instead shipped an overpriced truck. He’s suing OpenAI for going off-mission but that’s also exactly what he’s done. He also keeps messing with the residual value of the cars people bought and I, for one, love my Model Y but would never buy anything from Musk again. That said, I would also not buy any EV that connects to any other charging network, so Tesla the company can build great stuff but he keeps the company off-kilter.
      - leereeves 3y ago
        Musk makes big bets. 1000x bets, as GGP said. You can't expect all of them to work out. If you ask for a CEO who would keep the company on a steady course, you'll get a CEO who doesn't make those bets. Actually it might be time now for Tesla to switch to that CEO. It's hard to imagine another 1000x bet paying off for Tesla from its current value. But that wasn't the case in 2018 when this pay package was decided, when Tesla was valued at only $50B (and that value was already factoring in high growth expectations).
        browningstreet 3y ago
        The products were already designed and in the release pipeline at the time. He's done very little since. In fact, all his bad actions started around then. Elon is longer the person who set Tesla on the 3/Y path. And Tesla couldn't possibly have delivered less innovation (vs operations) since the 3/Y. Personally, when I see how hard most of the other manufacturers have struggled to meet product/EV outcomes Tesla set 5+ years ago.. I think of the lost potential of Tesla considering they haven't kept pace with their own standard since Elon lost the plot. Maybe the $25K car-to-come is up to par, but not if the Cybertruck is to go by.
cute_boi 3y ago
How can board be misled by elon musk. The board took action on behalf of their own self interest. And, if there is voting again I am sure Elon will win.
- jeffreportmill1 3y ago
  Misled? They were self dealing. The board returned 750M of stolen funds just to avoid prosecution. Friends and relatives of Elon, awarding themselves billions because they were guarding the vault and they could.
Arnt 3y ago
Are they asking for actual money, or best-case money? It seems like the former from the text in the article, but that's hard to believe. I was of the impression that the case was about contingency payout. If Tesla stock appreciates by 600% in the next few years, then Tesla has to pay Elon Musk a fantastic amount. 600% if kind of fantastic too. If the lawyers are asking for conditional reimbursement that can be that large in the same fantastic circumstances then I don't see what's wrong about it.