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It's interesting in the "spherical cow"[1] kind of way like many abstract ideas, but it quickly falls apart as soon as you try to use apply it to any real conte

It's interesting in the "spherical cow"[1] kind of way like many abstract ideas, but it quickly falls apart as soon as you try to use apply it to any real context. In particular it suffers from a problem similar to the one that plagues the Martingale betting strategy[2], where you might need an infinite[3] amount of resources to achieve a population large enough to make up for the loss in quality of life. So ultimately there's not an actionable idea here, because the true morality of the situation ends up depending on physical constraints that are hard to predict in advance. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system) [3] Not literally infinite, but more than can be obtained by the civilization you're applying this to. As a trivial example, what if the population required is so large that there's not enough water in the earth's oceans to constitute their bodies?

keiferski 3y ago
I don't think that's the case at all. The fundamental question of whether the basic low-level life existence of a human being is preferable to a smaller number of high-quality lives is a difficult question and isn't just some abstract spherical cow thought experiment.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  Abstract spherical cow thought experiments can be difficult and still be abstract spherical cow thought experiments. What makes this completely irrelevant to anything I care about, is that "many shitty lives" vs. "few high-quality lives" aren't options that exist in a void. Whatever complex worldwide system you're talking about that would put those two choices on the table would have all sorts of massive side effects, and those side effects matter in deciding which is preferable. It's just not useful to discuss it in some hypothetical infinite blank frictionless flat surface where you've arbitrarily decided that having a baby later is murdering the potential baby you might have had earlier. That's not reality and it has no impact or relation to reality.

keiferski 3y ago

I don't think that's the case at all. The fundamental question of whether the basic low-level life existence of a human being is preferable to a smaller number of high-quality lives is a difficult question and isn't just some abstract spherical cow thought experiment.

kerkeslager 3y ago
Abstract spherical cow thought experiments can be difficult and still be abstract spherical cow thought experiments. What makes this completely irrelevant to anything I care about, is that "many shitty lives" vs. "few high-quality lives" aren't options that exist in a void. Whatever complex worldwide system you're talking about that would put those two choices on the table would have all sorts of massive side effects, and those side effects matter in deciding which is preferable. It's just not useful to discuss it in some hypothetical infinite blank frictionless flat surface where you've arbitrarily decided that having a baby later is murdering the potential baby you might have had earlier. That's not reality and it has no impact or relation to reality.