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Modern techniques include rainscreens behind cladding, so air can flow behind siding and/or roofing as well as dimple mats to allow drainage for your foundation

Modern techniques include rainscreens behind cladding, so air can flow behind siding and/or roofing as well as dimple mats to allow drainage for your foundation.

MarkMarine 3y ago
Yeah, and those rain screens have a million staple holes in them right? Unless you seal every fastener hole with some sealant that will last 100 years, which I'm pretty sure would be a magical product, I sincerely doubt a modern house will be standing as long as mine is. Modern plastic paint, modern plastic building wrap, all these ideas of basically living inside a plastic hamster cage, they suffocate the living material (wood) that needs to breathe, and that allows rot and mold. The water eventually finds its way in because rain screen tape can't hold up for 50 years, the water gets in and has no good way to get out.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  You know there are buildings built with OSB and wrapped in Tyvek that are older than 50 years and are still standing right?
  - MarkMarine 3y ago
    Do you think these houses will last hundreds of years? I don’t.
    - sarchertech 3y ago
      Depends on maintenance. If a house can last 50 years it can probably last 100. Also remember, the vast majority of houses built in 1824 didn’t survive either. For the ones that did it’s mostly down to maintenance.
- coryrc 3y ago
  Lots of houses were built using poor techniques you reference. Nowadays, we're back to emphasizing breathable homes. Vapor barriers are out, vapor retarders are in. You use an air barrier because air movement is far more effective at moving moisture into a wall than vapor drive. We actually engineer the amount of drying to be optimal in your climate and reduce the amount of energy the home uses.
- danans 3y ago
  > those rain screens have a million staple holes in them right? Rain screens are mostly holes (empty space). That's how they allow drying of the exterior wall assembly. > Unless you seal every fastener hole with some sealant that will last 100 years, which I'm pretty sure would be a magical product, I sincerely doubt a modern house will be standing as long as mine is. Standing for 100 years isn't the sole metric of success of a house's envelope. There are many others: how much did it leak? how much energy did it consume to stay comfortable? how good was the air quality? what was the cost to maintain it? All of these have to be balanced and building science provides frameworks to achieve that. Using modern materials while adhering to building science results in very long lasting buildings, far longer than most homes built in the last 50 years.
  - MarkMarine 3y ago
    You can use traditional materials with a modern understanding and make a much better house, it just takes longer to build so this cheap, throwaway culture we’re in looks down on it. Solid wood, not using latex paints or wrap, allowing the house to breathe where it needs to, and you can still have an R60 wall.
    - danans 3y ago
      > You can use traditional materials with a modern understanding and make a much better house, it just takes longer to build Agreed that you can, but as you imply, at a very high cost, especially when you don't use modern sheet goods like plywood that not only impede air movement, but provide sheer/racking resistance unmatched by traditional nailed solid board walls. > so this cheap, throwaway culture we’re in looks down on it. Few can afford a custom built home, much less one with artisanal walls. If anything we have a culture that looks up to such artisanal buildings precisely because they are not accessible. Scalability is essential to any impactful building technology. The fact that plywood and OSB can be made at scale from low quality laminates and scraps was game changing. > Solid wood, not using latex paints or wrap, allowing the house to breathe where it needs to, and you can still have an R60 wall. An R60 wall perhaps, but one that leaks like a sieve. The leaking air will bring a lot of moisture and unconditioned air with it, which will in turn require a lot of energy to condition. Sure, solid wood will be more resilient to that moisture than plywood/OSB, but the swelling and contraction will create more leaks. There is a reason that for centuries people filled cracks in walls with any goopy substance they can find (mud, sap, tar, stucco). It's to stop those leaks. Modern vapor permeable but airtight house wraps (not latex) are just a continuation of that.

Modern techniques include rainscreens behind cladding, so air can flow behind siding and/or roofing as well as dimple mats to allow drainage for your foundation.

MarkMarine 3y ago

Yeah, and those rain screens have a million staple holes in them right? Unless you seal every fastener hole with some sealant that will last 100 years, which I'm pretty sure would be a magical product, I sincerely doubt a modern house will be standing as long as mine is. Modern plastic paint, modern plastic building wrap, all these ideas of basically living inside a plastic hamster cage, they suffocate the living material (wood) that needs to breathe, and that allows rot and mold. The water eventually finds its way in because rain screen tape can't hold up for 50 years, the water gets in and has no good way to get out.

sarchertech 3y ago
You know there are buildings built with OSB and wrapped in Tyvek that are older than 50 years and are still standing right?
- MarkMarine 3y ago
  Do you think these houses will last hundreds of years? I don’t.
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    Depends on maintenance. If a house can last 50 years it can probably last 100. Also remember, the vast majority of houses built in 1824 didn’t survive either. For the ones that did it’s mostly down to maintenance.
coryrc 3y ago
Lots of houses were built using poor techniques you reference. Nowadays, we're back to emphasizing breathable homes. Vapor barriers are out, vapor retarders are in. You use an air barrier because air movement is far more effective at moving moisture into a wall than vapor drive. We actually engineer the amount of drying to be optimal in your climate and reduce the amount of energy the home uses.
danans 3y ago
> those rain screens have a million staple holes in them right? Rain screens are mostly holes (empty space). That's how they allow drying of the exterior wall assembly. > Unless you seal every fastener hole with some sealant that will last 100 years, which I'm pretty sure would be a magical product, I sincerely doubt a modern house will be standing as long as mine is. Standing for 100 years isn't the sole metric of success of a house's envelope. There are many others: how much did it leak? how much energy did it consume to stay comfortable? how good was the air quality? what was the cost to maintain it? All of these have to be balanced and building science provides frameworks to achieve that. Using modern materials while adhering to building science results in very long lasting buildings, far longer than most homes built in the last 50 years.
- MarkMarine 3y ago
  You can use traditional materials with a modern understanding and make a much better house, it just takes longer to build so this cheap, throwaway culture we’re in looks down on it. Solid wood, not using latex paints or wrap, allowing the house to breathe where it needs to, and you can still have an R60 wall.
  - danans 3y ago
    > You can use traditional materials with a modern understanding and make a much better house, it just takes longer to build Agreed that you can, but as you imply, at a very high cost, especially when you don't use modern sheet goods like plywood that not only impede air movement, but provide sheer/racking resistance unmatched by traditional nailed solid board walls. > so this cheap, throwaway culture we’re in looks down on it. Few can afford a custom built home, much less one with artisanal walls. If anything we have a culture that looks up to such artisanal buildings precisely because they are not accessible. Scalability is essential to any impactful building technology. The fact that plywood and OSB can be made at scale from low quality laminates and scraps was game changing. > Solid wood, not using latex paints or wrap, allowing the house to breathe where it needs to, and you can still have an R60 wall. An R60 wall perhaps, but one that leaks like a sieve. The leaking air will bring a lot of moisture and unconditioned air with it, which will in turn require a lot of energy to condition. Sure, solid wood will be more resilient to that moisture than plywood/OSB, but the swelling and contraction will create more leaks. There is a reason that for centuries people filled cracks in walls with any goopy substance they can find (mud, sap, tar, stucco). It's to stop those leaks. Modern vapor permeable but airtight house wraps (not latex) are just a continuation of that.