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One thing I can’t understand about this is why purveyors of drugs would want to lace them with, effectively, a poison. The numbers must work out such that not e

by teeray 3y ago

One thing I can’t understand about this is why purveyors of drugs would want to lace them with, effectively, a poison. The numbers must work out such that not enough of their customers die for it to make a measurable impact on profits.

light_hue_1 3y ago
You're making a lot of assumptions. Like the fact that they could do quality control if they wanted to. Or that they have a steady supply of product. Or that everyone's incentives are aligned. Or that people give a damn about the long term business. Or that users don't also make mistakes. Etc.
pestatije 3y ago
everything is a poison depending on the dose...whatever they put there, it is there for its psychoeffects...the dose is a secondary issue, or more likely: the quality control of the dose is a secondary issue
MilStdJunkie 3y ago
It's not precisely poison, it's an opioid 100x stronger than morphine that can be had for $.001 a dose coming in giant barrels from China marked SUGAR or MSG or whatever the hell. If I am a dealer, it's extremely tempting to try these waters. Unfortunately, most dealers weren't exactly in AP Chem, so they won't have any theoretical legs when it comes to figuring out how to measure 10-50mcg. The fatalities are strictly from crappy street chemistry, as it does not take much at all to make a "good product" a deadly one. And of course the other temptation is to add it to everything, because man, opioids really are like Pringles. And once they're daily users, it's incredible torture for them to stop. I think the best description of opioid withdrawal . . ok, do you know the fingers on chalkboard sound? The way that feels, sort of a whole-body thing? Imagine that sensation, coming from somewhere inside you, basically all the time. Another thing: the stories about cops dying from fentanyl fumes, or handling the stuff, or punching junkies, or getting licked or whatever - they're crap. They're all crap. Seriously. There's never been a toxicologically proven incidence of it ever passing the skin, ever, and it's too heavy to aerosolize without deliberately weaponizing the stuff. You might note that users have to punch the spike through their skin. It's just cop stories. If you know cops, you know they love their stories.
- TeaBrain 3y ago
  The upper limit of molecular weight for a substance to be absorbed transdermally is considered to be 500-600 g/mol. Fentanyl has a molecular weight of 336 g/mol, which is plenty low enough to pass through the skin. It also happens to be commonly administered medically through transdermal patches.
  - MilStdJunkie 3y ago
    I should re-phrase that, because like its aerosol military usage[1], yes, the right formulation passes skin tissue. Transdermals take hours or days, and the formulation is geared specifically so that it's carried fluid-to-fluid via fats in the skin layers. Fentanyl wholesale is never anywhere near pure form, and it's locked in crystal structures of other substances. When it's added to other crap, the concentration goes down even more. Should you roll around in giant piles of street grade fentanyl? No. Should you lick your fingers after arresting junkies? Ew, and also, no. Do you get chain overdosed from helping someone to an ambulance or being in the same room as a herd of junkies? Hard nope, but also, check your wallet. [1] Which sucks as "knockout gas", by the way. Real good at "killing the whole elementary school" though.
gWPVhyxPHqvk 3y ago
Try giving https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-are-drug-dealers-putting-fentanyl https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-are-drug-dealers-putting-f... a listen. There are many reasons, some more plausible than others, but most surprising to me is that there’s a heavy amount of demand for it.
- gopher_space 3y ago
  It's like 90% cheaper than heroin and the high lasts longer. Everyone works towards their numbers, and that's especially important to keep in mind around such an agenda-driven topic.
  - woleium 3y ago
    the fentanyl high is apparently shorter, more rushy than heroin.

by teeray 3y ago

light_hue_1 3y ago

You're making a lot of assumptions. Like the fact that they could do quality control if they wanted to. Or that they have a steady supply of product. Or that everyone's incentives are aligned. Or that people give a damn about the long term business. Or that users don't also make mistakes. Etc.

pestatije 3y ago

everything is a poison depending on the dose...whatever they put there, it is there for its psychoeffects...the dose is a secondary issue, or more likely: the quality control of the dose is a secondary issue

MilStdJunkie 3y ago

It's not precisely poison, it's an opioid 100x stronger than morphine that can be had for $.001 a dose coming in giant barrels from China marked SUGAR or MSG or whatever the hell. If I am a dealer, it's extremely tempting to try these waters. Unfortunately, most dealers weren't exactly in AP Chem, so they won't have any theoretical legs when it comes to figuring out how to measure 10-50mcg. The fatalities are strictly from crappy street chemistry, as it does not take much at all to make a "good product" a deadly one. And of course the other temptation is to add it to everything, because man, opioids really are like Pringles. And once they're daily users, it's incredible torture for them to stop. I think the best description of opioid withdrawal . . ok, do you know the fingers on chalkboard sound? The way that feels, sort of a whole-body thing? Imagine that sensation, coming from somewhere inside you, basically all the time. Another thing: the stories about cops dying from fentanyl fumes, or handling the stuff, or punching junkies, or getting licked or whatever - they're crap. They're all crap. Seriously. There's never been a toxicologically proven incidence of it ever passing the skin, ever, and it's too heavy to aerosolize without deliberately weaponizing the stuff. You might note that users have to punch the spike through their skin. It's just cop stories. If you know cops, you know they love their stories.

TeaBrain 3y ago
The upper limit of molecular weight for a substance to be absorbed transdermally is considered to be 500-600 g/mol. Fentanyl has a molecular weight of 336 g/mol, which is plenty low enough to pass through the skin. It also happens to be commonly administered medically through transdermal patches.
- MilStdJunkie 3y ago
  I should re-phrase that, because like its aerosol military usage[1], yes, the right formulation passes skin tissue. Transdermals take hours or days, and the formulation is geared specifically so that it's carried fluid-to-fluid via fats in the skin layers. Fentanyl wholesale is never anywhere near pure form, and it's locked in crystal structures of other substances. When it's added to other crap, the concentration goes down even more. Should you roll around in giant piles of street grade fentanyl? No. Should you lick your fingers after arresting junkies? Ew, and also, no. Do you get chain overdosed from helping someone to an ambulance or being in the same room as a herd of junkies? Hard nope, but also, check your wallet. [1] Which sucks as "knockout gas", by the way. Real good at "killing the whole elementary school" though.

gWPVhyxPHqvk 3y ago

Try giving https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-are-drug-dealers-putting-fentanyl https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-are-drug-dealers-putting-f... a listen. There are many reasons, some more plausible than others, but most surprising to me is that there’s a heavy amount of demand for it.

gopher_space 3y ago
It's like 90% cheaper than heroin and the high lasts longer. Everyone works towards their numbers, and that's especially important to keep in mind around such an agenda-driven topic.
- woleium 3y ago
  the fentanyl high is apparently shorter, more rushy than heroin.