4 ms·

I don’t think the comment you’re replying to was saying Apple’s PWA support was world-leading. I think it was saying that if Apple wanted to kill PWA it would

I don’t think the comment you’re replying to was saying Apple’s PWA support was world-leading. I think it was saying that if Apple wanted to kill PWA it would have made more sense to just not make those investments over the past four years.

kelthuzad 3y ago
>I think it was saying that if Apple wanted to kill PWA it would have made more sense to just not make those investments over the past four years. wrong, Apple only started implementing the bare minimum because they felt the heat from devs & feared the legal consequences for their anti-competitive behavior. Apple still has the unquenchable desire to kill PWAs, they will just keep sabotaging them more subtly. Apple will keep up their shenanigans until the bitter end, but I hope that the EU will have none of it.
afavour 3y ago
Yes… and what I was saying in my response is that even if Apple did want to kill PWA there is good legal reason to have made the investments they have in the past few years. In court they can argue that app makers are free to make a PWA if they don’t want to pay the 30% cut. If they removed PWA support they’d not be able to make that argument.
nox101 3y ago
The cynical view would be that apple was only doing that to try staving off anti-trust litigation. The fact that PWAs are seriously crippled on iOS vs Android still seems certainly makes it appear Apple has ulterior motives. If you make PWAs not able to do everything a native app can do then you're incentivizing native apps. Apple wants everything to go through their store. (1) so they can ban anything they don't like. (2) they can get their 30% (can't get 30% of websites)
- agust 3y ago
  I'd say this is not a cynical view at all, rather a quite realistic one. They only added support for push notifications to iOS in 2023 (7 years after Firefox and 8 years after Chrome on Android), right after the UK regulator started its investigation in mobile ecosystems.
  - mdhb 3y ago
    Yeah I’m not sure how that seemed to get lost in some of the revisionist history in the comments here but it at a minimum sure was a hell of a coincidence that they managed to not make any meaningful investments in supporting the web as a viable app platform right up until the moment that regulators started looking into it.
    - albert180 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - jajko 3y ago
      This is an important server, not some small anonymous fringe forum. The idea that various political games are not played and manipulated also here is dangerously naive. Could be just die hard fans or current employees/investors, but... I've seen and read enough to know how these games are played by all relevant players. Again, this is too important and trivial to infiltrate place to ignore by many many players. Sure mods can remove outright lies but the key is in subtle ways crowds can be manipulated via ie direct attack on negative emotions, or mildly revisioning history one step at a time.
      - agust 3y ago
        Given the number of comments trying to find the craziest justifications for a giant corporation just attempting to break a law, silently kill thousands of apps used by millions of users, destroy businesses and kill the only open and free app distribution platform competing with their closed and taxed one, there is indeed very little doubt that a lot of people here have a vested interest in Apple. Of course, Apple $1B legal department thought they had to kill web apps to conform with the DMA whose purpose is to open iOS to competition. Sure ;)
      - sumeno 3y ago
        > This is an important server It's really not. Self important maybe
  - egberts1 3y ago
danlugo92 3y ago
You own Apple stock? I could probably code a web browser by myself in 4 years, how does a 2 trillion company not have world-leading PWA support listen to yourself.
- int_19h 3y ago
  I'm pretty sure that no single person can code a modern web browser by themselves in 4 years. Even just rendering and layout alone is insanely complex with modern CSS. And then you need a decently fast JS interpreter (which means JIT these days - and web apps do assume that kind of perf), and Wasm, and canvas, and ...
  - ihateolives 3y ago
    https://ladybird.dev/ https://ladybird.dev/
    - int_19h 3y ago
      I don't see how this proves anything, seeing how "there are no downloadable binaries yet, as the project is still very unstable"

kelthuzad 3y ago

>I think it was saying that if Apple wanted to kill PWA it would have made more sense to just not make those investments over the past four years. wrong, Apple only started implementing the bare minimum because they felt the heat from devs & feared the legal consequences for their anti-competitive behavior. Apple still has the unquenchable desire to kill PWAs, they will just keep sabotaging them more subtly. Apple will keep up their shenanigans until the bitter end, but I hope that the EU will have none of it.

afavour 3y ago

Yes… and what I was saying in my response is that even if Apple did want to kill PWA there is good legal reason to have made the investments they have in the past few years. In court they can argue that app makers are free to make a PWA if they don’t want to pay the 30% cut. If they removed PWA support they’d not be able to make that argument.

nox101 3y ago

The cynical view would be that apple was only doing that to try staving off anti-trust litigation. The fact that PWAs are seriously crippled on iOS vs Android still seems certainly makes it appear Apple has ulterior motives. If you make PWAs not able to do everything a native app can do then you're incentivizing native apps. Apple wants everything to go through their store. (1) so they can ban anything they don't like. (2) they can get their 30% (can't get 30% of websites)

agust 3y ago
I'd say this is not a cynical view at all, rather a quite realistic one. They only added support for push notifications to iOS in 2023 (7 years after Firefox and 8 years after Chrome on Android), right after the UK regulator started its investigation in mobile ecosystems.
- mdhb 3y ago
  Yeah I’m not sure how that seemed to get lost in some of the revisionist history in the comments here but it at a minimum sure was a hell of a coincidence that they managed to not make any meaningful investments in supporting the web as a viable app platform right up until the moment that regulators started looking into it.
  - albert180 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - jajko 3y ago
    This is an important server, not some small anonymous fringe forum. The idea that various political games are not played and manipulated also here is dangerously naive. Could be just die hard fans or current employees/investors, but... I've seen and read enough to know how these games are played by all relevant players. Again, this is too important and trivial to infiltrate place to ignore by many many players. Sure mods can remove outright lies but the key is in subtle ways crowds can be manipulated via ie direct attack on negative emotions, or mildly revisioning history one step at a time.
    - agust 3y ago
      Given the number of comments trying to find the craziest justifications for a giant corporation just attempting to break a law, silently kill thousands of apps used by millions of users, destroy businesses and kill the only open and free app distribution platform competing with their closed and taxed one, there is indeed very little doubt that a lot of people here have a vested interest in Apple. Of course, Apple $1B legal department thought they had to kill web apps to conform with the DMA whose purpose is to open iOS to competition. Sure ;)
    - sumeno 3y ago
      > This is an important server It's really not. Self important maybe
- egberts1 3y ago

danlugo92 3y ago

You own Apple stock? I could probably code a web browser by myself in 4 years, how does a 2 trillion company not have world-leading PWA support listen to yourself.

int_19h 3y ago
I'm pretty sure that no single person can code a modern web browser by themselves in 4 years. Even just rendering and layout alone is insanely complex with modern CSS. And then you need a decently fast JS interpreter (which means JIT these days - and web apps do assume that kind of perf), and Wasm, and canvas, and ...
- ihateolives 3y ago
  https://ladybird.dev/ https://ladybird.dev/
  - int_19h 3y ago
    I don't see how this proves anything, seeing how "there are no downloadable binaries yet, as the project is still very unstable"