4 ms·

Calif. students rank 47th in science

19 points by mikecane 14y ago

rflrob 14y ago
While it's certainly bad that California is so low (and somebody does have to be at the bottom, though I'd rather it not be one of the centers of tech), I'm also surprised that even the top states only have about 44% of their students "proficient/advanced".
georgemcbay 14y ago
Suck it Mississippi, Alabama and DC! We totally pwned you!
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
nwenzel 14y ago
Are they really going to blame statistical significance for a 47th place showing? As if a bigger sample pushes CA up to a podium finish. Also found the "large urban districts" comment interesting. I understand it's an Orange County paper in which an Orange County supervisor is telling his constituents that the story isn't representative of Orange County. But it shouldn't be okay for "urban" kids to be 47th in science?
- idm 14y ago
  There's a sweet spot to be found, and I might even argue that their sample is too large if it isn't stratified in some meaningful sense. (It seems it isn't stratified: "Scores were not broken down beyond the state level.") We're talking an average of 2400 students from each state. That's plenty for certain tests, such as the question of whether or not all states perform equally well. Since it's not stratified, we're basically talking about a rank order test concerning 50 means (depending on how you formulate it). A sample size of 120,000 is so enormously huge (for a question like that) that it might even be detrimental. The quote about small sample sizes is just wrong. If anything, this sample is too large, such that even minuscule differences would appear to be statistically significant, when in fact that might not be "practically different."
jhspaybar 14y ago
It seems to me there's a giant elephant in the room that no one wants to speak about. There is something broken with our educational system, specifically related to blacks. If you look at the top 10 states, they are not racially diverse consisting of large white populations. If you go from the bottom up, you pretty much have locales ranked in their density of black population. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. Until someone can stand up and say there is a problem culturally in black populations that needs fixing, or can determine what our school systems are doing wrong specifically to harm our black population our country will continue to suffer the consequences. This is not an easy subject to address, but it needs to be approached head on. We have a problem and it needs to be acknowledged before it can be fixed.
- why-el 14y ago
  I invite you to watch this illuminating interview with the creator of The Wire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic
- kaonashi 14y ago
  We have a problem in poor communities. Black communities are disproportionately poor due to historical factors. The problem isn't that we tap-dance around the issue, the problem is we don't like the solutions.
  - enjo 14y ago
    What are the solutions?
    - kaonashi 14y ago
      Investment in poor communities.
      - enjo 14y ago
        That seems..vague. What are we investing in? More money for schools? More money for roads? Mor money for...? Is there data to suggest that it works?
robbed 14y ago
This sounds like the biggest problem: > The exams measure knowledge and understanding of physical, life, Earth and space sciences. > In California, eighth-grade students are only taught in physical science, not in Earth or space sciences
- spamizbad 14y ago
  It wouldn't surprise me if the science curriculum had to paired down due to schools having a finite amount of time with students, and choosing to spend that time focus on stuff that drives Reading and Math scores on testing like the NCLB.
hsshah 14y ago
Recently I saw a documentary ("Waiting for 'Superman'") about the state of education and schools in US and its biggest challenges. It was very disheartening. But it did try to discuss potential solutions. I highly recommend this to anyone who wants a better picture about what's going on. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/ It is available on Netflix streaming.
vbtemp 14y ago
The great irony is that between Stanford, cal tech, the UCs, and the tech sector, Calif probably ranks 1st in the world in science...
- rsanchez1 14y ago
  Too bad they don't invest more time and resources in educating their community. They're content with sitting back and letting the government mismanage the problem.

19 points by mikecane 14y ago

While it's certainly bad that California is so low (and somebody does have to be at the bottom, though I'd rather it not be one of the centers of tech), I'm also surprised that even the top states only have about 44% of their students "proficient/advanced".

georgemcbay 14y ago

Suck it Mississippi, Alabama and DC! We totally pwned you!

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

nwenzel 14y ago

Are they really going to blame statistical significance for a 47th place showing? As if a bigger sample pushes CA up to a podium finish. Also found the "large urban districts" comment interesting. I understand it's an Orange County paper in which an Orange County supervisor is telling his constituents that the story isn't representative of Orange County. But it shouldn't be okay for "urban" kids to be 47th in science?

idm 14y ago
There's a sweet spot to be found, and I might even argue that their sample is too large if it isn't stratified in some meaningful sense. (It seems it isn't stratified: "Scores were not broken down beyond the state level.") We're talking an average of 2400 students from each state. That's plenty for certain tests, such as the question of whether or not all states perform equally well. Since it's not stratified, we're basically talking about a rank order test concerning 50 means (depending on how you formulate it). A sample size of 120,000 is so enormously huge (for a question like that) that it might even be detrimental. The quote about small sample sizes is just wrong. If anything, this sample is too large, such that even minuscule differences would appear to be statistically significant, when in fact that might not be "practically different."

jhspaybar 14y ago

It seems to me there's a giant elephant in the room that no one wants to speak about. There is something broken with our educational system, specifically related to blacks. If you look at the top 10 states, they are not racially diverse consisting of large white populations. If you go from the bottom up, you pretty much have locales ranked in their density of black population. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. Until someone can stand up and say there is a problem culturally in black populations that needs fixing, or can determine what our school systems are doing wrong specifically to harm our black population our country will continue to suffer the consequences. This is not an easy subject to address, but it needs to be approached head on. We have a problem and it needs to be acknowledged before it can be fixed.

why-el 14y ago
I invite you to watch this illuminating interview with the creator of The Wire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic
kaonashi 14y ago
We have a problem in poor communities. Black communities are disproportionately poor due to historical factors. The problem isn't that we tap-dance around the issue, the problem is we don't like the solutions.
- enjo 14y ago
  What are the solutions?
  - kaonashi 14y ago
    Investment in poor communities.
    - enjo 14y ago
      That seems..vague. What are we investing in? More money for schools? More money for roads? Mor money for...? Is there data to suggest that it works?

robbed 14y ago

This sounds like the biggest problem: > The exams measure knowledge and understanding of physical, life, Earth and space sciences. > In California, eighth-grade students are only taught in physical science, not in Earth or space sciences

spamizbad 14y ago
It wouldn't surprise me if the science curriculum had to paired down due to schools having a finite amount of time with students, and choosing to spend that time focus on stuff that drives Reading and Math scores on testing like the NCLB.

hsshah 14y ago

Recently I saw a documentary ("Waiting for 'Superman'") about the state of education and schools in US and its biggest challenges. It was very disheartening. But it did try to discuss potential solutions. I highly recommend this to anyone who wants a better picture about what's going on. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/ It is available on Netflix streaming.

vbtemp 14y ago

The great irony is that between Stanford, cal tech, the UCs, and the tech sector, Calif probably ranks 1st in the world in science...

rsanchez1 14y ago
Too bad they don't invest more time and resources in educating their community. They're content with sitting back and letting the government mismanage the problem.