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The problem with the new window is that people are most likely to buy a window that is unrepairable and will fail in 15 years. So changing a wood window for vy

The problem with the new window is that people are most likely to buy a window that is unrepairable and will fail in 15 years. So changing a wood window for vynil/plastic/aluminium is signing up to a subscription to the window company. Also, the nice thing is that everything you described above is easily DIY'able (yes, even the lead paint).

amluto 3y ago
For the amount of money you’ll pay a competent contractor to strip, re-glaze, repaint, and replace the sash in an old window, you can buy a nice new window. With an engineered and tested sealing system that will keep drafts out a lot better than whatever you retrofit into your old window. Also, in cold climates, you’re up against physics. The inner surface of the glass, especially around the edges, gets cold. If you keep your interior air at a comfortable humidity level on a cold night, water will condense onto the glass. Some of it will drip onto the frame. Over the course of a few years, even really nice wood will not really appreciate this. So maybe don’t get a window with wood around the glass in a cold climate.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  My point is you can DIY that strip/reglaze work. If you contract it out it will be expensive, yes. Wood windows on the old property have fared much better than plastic or aluminum. Plastic fared the worst. Condensation will happen, but wood won't rot unless it can't dry out. It can dry out because you heat the house for one. That said any material will take damage if you let water intrusion (plastic frames too!) If water gets behind paint in painted wood, it'll rot. Some windows have better details for this - the trim and sill are sloped so that any water will naturally drip out instead of gathering. The windows that survived a long time tend to have those trim details that seem esthetic but are really functional.
  - amluto 3y ago
    The condensation issue isn't necessarily water intrusion -- the cases I've seen on windows in otherwise good condition were repeated wetting of the inside surface of the wood at the bottom of the glass. This won't rot most wood, especially in cold weather. But it's terrible for the finish and the appearance, and it can cause brittleness and splitting.
    - VHRanger 3y ago
      Yes, these things mostly happens because people get important details wrong. It might be bad flashing on the exterior, bad trim details on the interior, or not heating the windows appropriately in the winter, etc. Seeing these sort of issues as I renovate houses I've owned made me realize the difference between bottom dollar and paying for quality. And also stuff that masquerades as quality but is overpriced junk.
      - amluto 3y ago
        I’ve seen this in a nice, well-constructed, fairly well insulated, fairly well-sealed house. The outdoor nighttime temperature would be 0F or down to -10F or so on an ordinary winter night. At 65F, 50% RH inside, the dew point is 46F. If you like sleeping warmer, 72F, 50% RH has a dew point of 52F. Most people like sleeping with shades or blinds closed, so somehow the inner glass surface, hiding behind window treatments, needs to be kept above the dew point or condensation needs to be tolerated. There’s a ~20 degree difference permitted between room air and the glass surface and the remaining 50-60 degrees between glass surface and outside. That’s a tall order to avoid condensation. One can maintain a lower humidity (which is easier to do on a poorly sealed house). 30% RH at 72F pushes the dew point below 40F. Lower humidity also reduces the rate of condensation and speeds up drying in the daytime. > bad flashing on the exterior I don’t see how exterior flashing affects this. It’s an interior problem. > bad trim details on the interior Well, yes, I guess? If you make whatever interior surface touches the glass be impervious to water (fiberglass, vinyl or aluminum, for example, although aluminum has its own thermal issues), then maybe you don’t care about condensation. If you use very very well-insulating windows (triple paned with warm spacers, for example), you can actually reduce condensation. > not heating the windows appropriately in the winter The only houses I’ve seen that heat the windows either have forced air vents or radiators by the exterior walls. This is a somewhat outdated practice to help compensate for poorly insulated walls. Old houses may also have very low interior humidity, further reducing the problem. I’d rather have a comfy house with comfortable humidity, built to tolerate a comfortable humidity. If that means aluminum-clad or fiberglass windows, so be it.
        3y ago
scotty79 3y ago
I never seen failed pvc window after decades of zero maintenance. I own maybe 25 window panes and can't imagine wanting to own a single wooden one.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  You probably don't have the same definition of "failed" as I do. If it leaks air, it failed. There are easy ways to test that. Most people only think of mechanical failure, or the double glaze popping as failure. You can do simple tests to see if your windows have failed, and I'm sure after "decades of zero maintenance" most of yours have.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    In Europe apartments are pretty much air tight. Any source of air in there are window and door "leaks". If you don't have enough of them then pressure of the ventilation can be high enough to suck the air through the p-traps in your plumbing. So PVC windows have built-in "leaks" in form of slightly opening them so that seals on them are no longer sealed. Or even separate holes with filters and regulated (non-airtight) barriers that allow adjustable (but never down to zero) air intake. Because of that I don't consider any window that can't be made air-tight to be a failed window because otherwise I'd have to consider some of them to never be working by design because they have separate holes in them exactly to prevent air-tightness. All of this is necessary because in general PVC windows can be way more air-tight than wood windows and stay air-tight way longer. Which is harmful to homes with ventilation that doesn't have dedicated air intake.

amluto 3y ago

For the amount of money you’ll pay a competent contractor to strip, re-glaze, repaint, and replace the sash in an old window, you can buy a nice new window. With an engineered and tested sealing system that will keep drafts out a lot better than whatever you retrofit into your old window. Also, in cold climates, you’re up against physics. The inner surface of the glass, especially around the edges, gets cold. If you keep your interior air at a comfortable humidity level on a cold night, water will condense onto the glass. Some of it will drip onto the frame. Over the course of a few years, even really nice wood will not really appreciate this. So maybe don’t get a window with wood around the glass in a cold climate.

VHRanger 3y ago
My point is you can DIY that strip/reglaze work. If you contract it out it will be expensive, yes. Wood windows on the old property have fared much better than plastic or aluminum. Plastic fared the worst. Condensation will happen, but wood won't rot unless it can't dry out. It can dry out because you heat the house for one. That said any material will take damage if you let water intrusion (plastic frames too!) If water gets behind paint in painted wood, it'll rot. Some windows have better details for this - the trim and sill are sloped so that any water will naturally drip out instead of gathering. The windows that survived a long time tend to have those trim details that seem esthetic but are really functional.
- amluto 3y ago
  The condensation issue isn't necessarily water intrusion -- the cases I've seen on windows in otherwise good condition were repeated wetting of the inside surface of the wood at the bottom of the glass. This won't rot most wood, especially in cold weather. But it's terrible for the finish and the appearance, and it can cause brittleness and splitting.
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    Yes, these things mostly happens because people get important details wrong. It might be bad flashing on the exterior, bad trim details on the interior, or not heating the windows appropriately in the winter, etc. Seeing these sort of issues as I renovate houses I've owned made me realize the difference between bottom dollar and paying for quality. And also stuff that masquerades as quality but is overpriced junk.
    - amluto 3y ago
      I’ve seen this in a nice, well-constructed, fairly well insulated, fairly well-sealed house. The outdoor nighttime temperature would be 0F or down to -10F or so on an ordinary winter night. At 65F, 50% RH inside, the dew point is 46F. If you like sleeping warmer, 72F, 50% RH has a dew point of 52F. Most people like sleeping with shades or blinds closed, so somehow the inner glass surface, hiding behind window treatments, needs to be kept above the dew point or condensation needs to be tolerated. There’s a ~20 degree difference permitted between room air and the glass surface and the remaining 50-60 degrees between glass surface and outside. That’s a tall order to avoid condensation. One can maintain a lower humidity (which is easier to do on a poorly sealed house). 30% RH at 72F pushes the dew point below 40F. Lower humidity also reduces the rate of condensation and speeds up drying in the daytime. > bad flashing on the exterior I don’t see how exterior flashing affects this. It’s an interior problem. > bad trim details on the interior Well, yes, I guess? If you make whatever interior surface touches the glass be impervious to water (fiberglass, vinyl or aluminum, for example, although aluminum has its own thermal issues), then maybe you don’t care about condensation. If you use very very well-insulating windows (triple paned with warm spacers, for example), you can actually reduce condensation. > not heating the windows appropriately in the winter The only houses I’ve seen that heat the windows either have forced air vents or radiators by the exterior walls. This is a somewhat outdated practice to help compensate for poorly insulated walls. Old houses may also have very low interior humidity, further reducing the problem. I’d rather have a comfy house with comfortable humidity, built to tolerate a comfortable humidity. If that means aluminum-clad or fiberglass windows, so be it.
      - 3y ago

scotty79 3y ago

I never seen failed pvc window after decades of zero maintenance. I own maybe 25 window panes and can't imagine wanting to own a single wooden one.

VHRanger 3y ago
You probably don't have the same definition of "failed" as I do. If it leaks air, it failed. There are easy ways to test that. Most people only think of mechanical failure, or the double glaze popping as failure. You can do simple tests to see if your windows have failed, and I'm sure after "decades of zero maintenance" most of yours have.
- scotty79 3y ago
  In Europe apartments are pretty much air tight. Any source of air in there are window and door "leaks". If you don't have enough of them then pressure of the ventilation can be high enough to suck the air through the p-traps in your plumbing. So PVC windows have built-in "leaks" in form of slightly opening them so that seals on them are no longer sealed. Or even separate holes with filters and regulated (non-airtight) barriers that allow adjustable (but never down to zero) air intake. Because of that I don't consider any window that can't be made air-tight to be a failed window because otherwise I'd have to consider some of them to never be working by design because they have separate holes in them exactly to prevent air-tightness. All of this is necessary because in general PVC windows can be way more air-tight than wood windows and stay air-tight way longer. Which is harmful to homes with ventilation that doesn't have dedicated air intake.