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> The value of old growth lumber is the reason we should NOT throw out old windows. Your 100 year old window probably has single paned glass, lead paint (which

by amluto 3y ago

> The value of old growth lumber is the reason we should NOT throw out old windows. Your 100 year old window probably has single paned glass, lead paint (which is an unmitigated disaster on a double hung window, possibly exceeding the degree of hazard from every other lead painted part of a house combined), and is likely installed in an uninsulated wall without a proper sill flashing. That last point is worth some consideration. Essentially every window ever made either leaks or will leak. A small leak from a protected window [0] into an uninsulated wall cavity may not be terribly damaging. Add insulation and it’s a different story. Fortunately (per code! although many contractors completely ignore it for residential construction), newly installed windows are installed over a sill pan or other flashing that collects the water that leaks through the visible sill and directs it toward the outside. So, sure, maybe it’s worth the money to remove a double hung window, carefully and safely remove all the paint, retrofit an insulated glass unit into it, and reinstall it with proper flashings. Or you can buy a new window and trash the old one. [0] Old architecture was generally much better than new architecture at having little details that direct rain away from walls, windows and doors.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> lead paint (which is an unmitigated disaster on a double hung window, possibly exceeding the degree of hazard from every other lead painted part of a house combined), I'm drawing a blank; why is lead more dangerous there than elsewhere?
- amluto 3y ago
  Because you end up with lead-painted surfaces that rub against each other when you open and close the window, which can turn the paint into a fine airborne powder. Other than that, lead and its common compounds as used in paint are solids and are ordinarily pretty good at staying put. Unless you chew on the wall or the paint is damaged, lead painted surfaces may not be immediate hazards if you leave them alone.
  - ipqk 3y ago
    Paint can flake off in other areas too (like corners where pets & humans brush constantly against it). For adults, this is not a big deal because we'll just eventually sweep it or vacuum it, but for babies or pets, they may eat it which is very bad.
VHRanger 3y ago
The problem with the new window is that people are most likely to buy a window that is unrepairable and will fail in 15 years. So changing a wood window for vynil/plastic/aluminium is signing up to a subscription to the window company. Also, the nice thing is that everything you described above is easily DIY'able (yes, even the lead paint).
- amluto 3y ago
  For the amount of money you’ll pay a competent contractor to strip, re-glaze, repaint, and replace the sash in an old window, you can buy a nice new window. With an engineered and tested sealing system that will keep drafts out a lot better than whatever you retrofit into your old window. Also, in cold climates, you’re up against physics. The inner surface of the glass, especially around the edges, gets cold. If you keep your interior air at a comfortable humidity level on a cold night, water will condense onto the glass. Some of it will drip onto the frame. Over the course of a few years, even really nice wood will not really appreciate this. So maybe don’t get a window with wood around the glass in a cold climate.
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    My point is you can DIY that strip/reglaze work. If you contract it out it will be expensive, yes. Wood windows on the old property have fared much better than plastic or aluminum. Plastic fared the worst. Condensation will happen, but wood won't rot unless it can't dry out. It can dry out because you heat the house for one. That said any material will take damage if you let water intrusion (plastic frames too!) If water gets behind paint in painted wood, it'll rot. Some windows have better details for this - the trim and sill are sloped so that any water will naturally drip out instead of gathering. The windows that survived a long time tend to have those trim details that seem esthetic but are really functional.
    - amluto 3y ago
      The condensation issue isn't necessarily water intrusion -- the cases I've seen on windows in otherwise good condition were repeated wetting of the inside surface of the wood at the bottom of the glass. This won't rot most wood, especially in cold weather. But it's terrible for the finish and the appearance, and it can cause brittleness and splitting.

by amluto 3y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

> lead paint (which is an unmitigated disaster on a double hung window, possibly exceeding the degree of hazard from every other lead painted part of a house combined), I'm drawing a blank; why is lead more dangerous there than elsewhere?

amluto 3y ago
Because you end up with lead-painted surfaces that rub against each other when you open and close the window, which can turn the paint into a fine airborne powder. Other than that, lead and its common compounds as used in paint are solids and are ordinarily pretty good at staying put. Unless you chew on the wall or the paint is damaged, lead painted surfaces may not be immediate hazards if you leave them alone.
- ipqk 3y ago
  Paint can flake off in other areas too (like corners where pets & humans brush constantly against it). For adults, this is not a big deal because we'll just eventually sweep it or vacuum it, but for babies or pets, they may eat it which is very bad.

VHRanger 3y ago

The problem with the new window is that people are most likely to buy a window that is unrepairable and will fail in 15 years. So changing a wood window for vynil/plastic/aluminium is signing up to a subscription to the window company. Also, the nice thing is that everything you described above is easily DIY'able (yes, even the lead paint).

amluto 3y ago
For the amount of money you’ll pay a competent contractor to strip, re-glaze, repaint, and replace the sash in an old window, you can buy a nice new window. With an engineered and tested sealing system that will keep drafts out a lot better than whatever you retrofit into your old window. Also, in cold climates, you’re up against physics. The inner surface of the glass, especially around the edges, gets cold. If you keep your interior air at a comfortable humidity level on a cold night, water will condense onto the glass. Some of it will drip onto the frame. Over the course of a few years, even really nice wood will not really appreciate this. So maybe don’t get a window with wood around the glass in a cold climate.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  My point is you can DIY that strip/reglaze work. If you contract it out it will be expensive, yes. Wood windows on the old property have fared much better than plastic or aluminum. Plastic fared the worst. Condensation will happen, but wood won't rot unless it can't dry out. It can dry out because you heat the house for one. That said any material will take damage if you let water intrusion (plastic frames too!) If water gets behind paint in painted wood, it'll rot. Some windows have better details for this - the trim and sill are sloped so that any water will naturally drip out instead of gathering. The windows that survived a long time tend to have those trim details that seem esthetic but are really functional.
  - amluto 3y ago
    The condensation issue isn't necessarily water intrusion -- the cases I've seen on windows in otherwise good condition were repeated wetting of the inside surface of the wood at the bottom of the glass. This won't rot most wood, especially in cold weather. But it's terrible for the finish and the appearance, and it can cause brittleness and splitting.