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>But for knowledge work it makes a ton of sense. It's been repeatedly shown that knowledge workers are equally if not more productive at 32 hours a week vs 40 h

>But for knowledge work it makes a ton of sense. It's been repeatedly shown that knowledge workers are equally if not more productive at 32 hours a week vs 40 hours a week. But then why hasn't it become the norm already and even in some cases, like in Asia, people are forced to stay in the office way more hours than 40? If I take that research and show it to my boss saying I should work 32 hours/week instead of 40 for the same pay, he'll most likely laugh in my face and tell me to go back to work. Clearly the vast majority of companies don't believe the same research, otherwise we'd be working 32 hours/week a long time ago.

jedberg 3y ago
For the same reason companies are forcing return to office -- control. They like to see their people working, it makes them feel like better managers.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  I don't buy this. I think my manager would also like to work just 32 hours/week instead of 40 for the same pay. So weh do we stop blaming them?
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    His manager wants control too, and that goes all the way up the chain.
  - jedberg 3y ago
    I'm sure your manager does. They aren't the ones demanding 40 hours and return to office. It's the C-suite that is doing it. The C-Suite got where they are because they are extroverts who excel at in person interactions. They can't use that skill unless you're there in front of them. They also came up in a world where everyone worked in an office 40 hours a week. And since they are in charge, they get to choose the rules of engagement, and are seemingly choosing to ignore productivity studies that show their decisions don't make sense. Eventually they will be eclipsed by C-Suites that follow the science as they will get out-competed. But it will take decades.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >and are seemingly choosing to ignore productivity studies that show their decisions don't make sense. I also don't buy this. Companies are all profit oriented and don't like leaving money on the table if research shows there is left over money on the table. They can't monetize control but they can monetize money. If research would show they would make more profits using AWS instead of Azure(example pulled out of my ass for simplicity), they would immediately switch to it. So if research would be universal and clear cut that working 32 hours outcompetes those companies working 40 hours, then at least a significant proportion of companies would be using this new way of work as leverage to outcompete their competitors working 40 and beat them at profits and market share, and then that would become the new norm as it's the proven winning strategy, since that's how competition in capitalism works. But so far that's not been the case.
      - jedberg 3y ago
        Return-to-office mandates aren't making companies more valuable and productive, study finds: https://www.businessinsider.com/return-to-office-mandates-remote-work-stock-returns-productivity-2024-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/return-to-office-mandates-re... "Any one of the three economic factors described above (real estate, retention and recruitment), by itself, could justify the alleged loss in productivity. When you consider all three, it is extremely hard to imagine any organization for which the losses resulting from a strict RTO policy would be offset by a possible increase in worker productivity. As a further consideration, a strict RTO policy will also disproportionally impact certain traditionally disadvantaged groups, leading to further decreases in organizational diversity.": https://www.forbes.com/sites/paologaudiano/2023/08/14/here-is-why-you-should-not-base-your-return-to-office-strategy-on-employee-productivity-alone/?sh=321702235501 https://www.forbes.com/sites/paologaudiano/2023/08/14/here-i... People return to offices, productivity plunges: https://ktla.com/news/money-business/people-return-to-offices-productivity-plunges/ https://ktla.com/news/money-business/people-return-to-office... The return to the office could be the real reason for the slump in productivity. Here’s the data to prove it: https://fortune.com/2023/02/16/return-office-real-reason-slump-productivity-data-careers-gleb-tsipursky/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/16/return-office-real-reason-slu... Expecting a return to office will boost worker productivity is ‘magical thinking,’ says Meta’s former director of remote work https://finance.yahoo.com/news/expecting-return-office-boost-worker-162439302.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/expecting-return-office-boost...

jedberg 3y ago

For the same reason companies are forcing return to office -- control. They like to see their people working, it makes them feel like better managers.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
I don't buy this. I think my manager would also like to work just 32 hours/week instead of 40 for the same pay. So weh do we stop blaming them?
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  His manager wants control too, and that goes all the way up the chain.
- jedberg 3y ago
  I'm sure your manager does. They aren't the ones demanding 40 hours and return to office. It's the C-suite that is doing it. The C-Suite got where they are because they are extroverts who excel at in person interactions. They can't use that skill unless you're there in front of them. They also came up in a world where everyone worked in an office 40 hours a week. And since they are in charge, they get to choose the rules of engagement, and are seemingly choosing to ignore productivity studies that show their decisions don't make sense. Eventually they will be eclipsed by C-Suites that follow the science as they will get out-competed. But it will take decades.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >and are seemingly choosing to ignore productivity studies that show their decisions don't make sense. I also don't buy this. Companies are all profit oriented and don't like leaving money on the table if research shows there is left over money on the table. They can't monetize control but they can monetize money. If research would show they would make more profits using AWS instead of Azure(example pulled out of my ass for simplicity), they would immediately switch to it. So if research would be universal and clear cut that working 32 hours outcompetes those companies working 40 hours, then at least a significant proportion of companies would be using this new way of work as leverage to outcompete their competitors working 40 and beat them at profits and market share, and then that would become the new norm as it's the proven winning strategy, since that's how competition in capitalism works. But so far that's not been the case.
    - jedberg 3y ago
      Return-to-office mandates aren't making companies more valuable and productive, study finds: https://www.businessinsider.com/return-to-office-mandates-remote-work-stock-returns-productivity-2024-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/return-to-office-mandates-re... "Any one of the three economic factors described above (real estate, retention and recruitment), by itself, could justify the alleged loss in productivity. When you consider all three, it is extremely hard to imagine any organization for which the losses resulting from a strict RTO policy would be offset by a possible increase in worker productivity. As a further consideration, a strict RTO policy will also disproportionally impact certain traditionally disadvantaged groups, leading to further decreases in organizational diversity.": https://www.forbes.com/sites/paologaudiano/2023/08/14/here-is-why-you-should-not-base-your-return-to-office-strategy-on-employee-productivity-alone/?sh=321702235501 https://www.forbes.com/sites/paologaudiano/2023/08/14/here-i... People return to offices, productivity plunges: https://ktla.com/news/money-business/people-return-to-offices-productivity-plunges/ https://ktla.com/news/money-business/people-return-to-office... The return to the office could be the real reason for the slump in productivity. Here’s the data to prove it: https://fortune.com/2023/02/16/return-office-real-reason-slump-productivity-data-careers-gleb-tsipursky/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/16/return-office-real-reason-slu... Expecting a return to office will boost worker productivity is ‘magical thinking,’ says Meta’s former director of remote work https://finance.yahoo.com/news/expecting-return-office-boost-worker-162439302.html?guccounter=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/expecting-return-office-boost...