5 ms·

Old growth is on par with LVL/Glulam in terms of structural strength. But to be honest the rot resistance is more important. Most wood buildings fail because o

Old growth is on par with LVL/Glulam in terms of structural strength. But to be honest the rot resistance is more important. Most wood buildings fail because of rot issues, not because the wood wasn't strong enough.

bertil 3y ago
Would treating the wood (presumably with chemicals you might not want inside your house) be enough to avoid the rot? Traditional wood houses in Scandinavia have tar and seem well preserved: is that usually enough, or did they survive because it’s so cold to six months a year that bugs don’t even try?
- bluGill 3y ago
  Houses survive because they tend to be dry enough that the wood doesn't rot. Let the roof fail and soon the rest of the house will rot away. Similar for let the siding on the outside fail and the house will soon rot away (not as fast as when the roof fails). Keep those in good shape though and the inside is dry enough that wood won't rot.
- VHRanger 3y ago
  Yes, treating wood does work, but what use to treat depends on the application. For instance railroad ties were treated with creosote or tar. Similar for the underground part of telephone poles. There was a Copper-Chromium-Arsenic mix also that would kill bugs and mold but is extremely toxic, so isn't EPA approved anymore. I would not want creosote or tar-treated wood in a house I live in, though. It's all toxic. In the exterior-treated SPF (think what we use in America for a deck or exterior staircase) there's a durability limit to the rot resistance. And the wood is tough to restore. Better woods (not necessarily old growth, just white pine or high quality cedar) are easier to restore. They also look nice, so people are more inclined to take care of them. In the end, nothing lasts forever without maintenance.
- jnellis 3y ago
  Sure temperature is big factor but water is always the enemy of wood, regardless of the treatment. You can slow it down with chemicals but bugs and microorganisms find a way if water is present. Humidity is water. Primers and paint do wonders against it. But the wood has to be dry first. Tar is pretty darn good at keeping out water but also good at trapping it in. Old growth and just 'old' wood is naturally termite resistant because wood gets harder as it ages and the bugs just don't like to chew on it, they will look elsewhere. You don't see many 60+ year old houses getting new termite infestations unless it was in areas of recent repair (fascia boards, brick moldings). But if it's wet, it's softer to chew. It's always comes down to water.
- nf3 3y ago
  Some species of wood are naturally resistant to rot: black locust, chestnut, cedar, cypres, Douglas fir. Other methods of preventing rot exist such as charring the end of a post before sticking it in the ground, protecting end grain from contact with water, etc.
- hattmall 3y ago
  Unless you have major water issues, like roof leaks or something where water is accumulating consistently up against wood. For example a deck that slopes toward the house or something, rot isn't really an issue. Termites can be an issue, but it's not super common.
- not_the_fda 3y ago
  Yep its called a [Permanent Wood Foundation](https://www.nachi.org/permanent-wood-foundations.htm https://www.nachi.org/permanent-wood-foundations.htm) I had a house with it, had no problems with it.
turtlebits 3y ago
Water management is more important than rot resistance. Wood will easily last for 100 years if let it dry. (you'll never be able to keep any part of your house 100% dry).
- MarkMarine 3y ago
  There are some old ideas about water management that are A LOT different than the modern techniques. I live in a 120 year old house framed with old growth redwood. As wood goes, it's rock solid, but also everything in it breathes. It's painted with linseed oil paints, the lathe and plaster walls breathe moisture, and frankly it's not sealed well anywhere, including my original double hung windows. If this was a modern house, it would be covered in 5 different layers of plastic with the intent on keeping any moisture out, then sheathed in OSB that basically sees water and just melts away. Like you said, there is no way to keep it all the way dry, but energy efficiency (and cheap materials and quick building techniques) have also driven a housing design that is so tight that if there is moisture intrusion, it's got no good way to vent out.
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    Do you have any good sources of info for your any my type of home; old and wood? I’m worried that some of the upgrades and paint done to this house is preventing as much “breathing” as it was designed for, and I don’t want my house to rot away. It’s really wet here!
    - VHRanger 3y ago
      Check out stuff by Joe Lstiburek (build science expert) and Brent Hull (linked in OP, historic restoration expert, has YouTube channel)
    - MarkMarine 3y ago
      https://linseedpaint.com https://linseedpaint.com - This is where I get my paint, lots of information about why latex paint (and generally wrapping in plastic) ruins the wood of a house. Past there, I really like a timber framer who does YouTube called Mr. Chickadee, guy was a Marine who decided to live a simple life. He hand makes everything, but don't let the old timey hat and pants fool you, he's spent a ton of time thinking about how the old methods work and why, and picking through multiple cultures that have had old wooden structures that last hundreds or even thousands of years for the techniques he's using.

bertil 3y ago

Would treating the wood (presumably with chemicals you might not want inside your house) be enough to avoid the rot? Traditional wood houses in Scandinavia have tar and seem well preserved: is that usually enough, or did they survive because it’s so cold to six months a year that bugs don’t even try?

bluGill 3y ago
Houses survive because they tend to be dry enough that the wood doesn't rot. Let the roof fail and soon the rest of the house will rot away. Similar for let the siding on the outside fail and the house will soon rot away (not as fast as when the roof fails). Keep those in good shape though and the inside is dry enough that wood won't rot.
VHRanger 3y ago
Yes, treating wood does work, but what use to treat depends on the application. For instance railroad ties were treated with creosote or tar. Similar for the underground part of telephone poles. There was a Copper-Chromium-Arsenic mix also that would kill bugs and mold but is extremely toxic, so isn't EPA approved anymore. I would not want creosote or tar-treated wood in a house I live in, though. It's all toxic. In the exterior-treated SPF (think what we use in America for a deck or exterior staircase) there's a durability limit to the rot resistance. And the wood is tough to restore. Better woods (not necessarily old growth, just white pine or high quality cedar) are easier to restore. They also look nice, so people are more inclined to take care of them. In the end, nothing lasts forever without maintenance.
jnellis 3y ago
Sure temperature is big factor but water is always the enemy of wood, regardless of the treatment. You can slow it down with chemicals but bugs and microorganisms find a way if water is present. Humidity is water. Primers and paint do wonders against it. But the wood has to be dry first. Tar is pretty darn good at keeping out water but also good at trapping it in. Old growth and just 'old' wood is naturally termite resistant because wood gets harder as it ages and the bugs just don't like to chew on it, they will look elsewhere. You don't see many 60+ year old houses getting new termite infestations unless it was in areas of recent repair (fascia boards, brick moldings). But if it's wet, it's softer to chew. It's always comes down to water.
nf3 3y ago
Some species of wood are naturally resistant to rot: black locust, chestnut, cedar, cypres, Douglas fir. Other methods of preventing rot exist such as charring the end of a post before sticking it in the ground, protecting end grain from contact with water, etc.
hattmall 3y ago
Unless you have major water issues, like roof leaks or something where water is accumulating consistently up against wood. For example a deck that slopes toward the house or something, rot isn't really an issue. Termites can be an issue, but it's not super common.
not_the_fda 3y ago
Yep its called a [Permanent Wood Foundation](https://www.nachi.org/permanent-wood-foundations.htm https://www.nachi.org/permanent-wood-foundations.htm) I had a house with it, had no problems with it.

turtlebits 3y ago

Water management is more important than rot resistance. Wood will easily last for 100 years if let it dry. (you'll never be able to keep any part of your house 100% dry).

MarkMarine 3y ago
There are some old ideas about water management that are A LOT different than the modern techniques. I live in a 120 year old house framed with old growth redwood. As wood goes, it's rock solid, but also everything in it breathes. It's painted with linseed oil paints, the lathe and plaster walls breathe moisture, and frankly it's not sealed well anywhere, including my original double hung windows. If this was a modern house, it would be covered in 5 different layers of plastic with the intent on keeping any moisture out, then sheathed in OSB that basically sees water and just melts away. Like you said, there is no way to keep it all the way dry, but energy efficiency (and cheap materials and quick building techniques) have also driven a housing design that is so tight that if there is moisture intrusion, it's got no good way to vent out.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  Do you have any good sources of info for your any my type of home; old and wood? I’m worried that some of the upgrades and paint done to this house is preventing as much “breathing” as it was designed for, and I don’t want my house to rot away. It’s really wet here!
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    Check out stuff by Joe Lstiburek (build science expert) and Brent Hull (linked in OP, historic restoration expert, has YouTube channel)
  - MarkMarine 3y ago
    https://linseedpaint.com https://linseedpaint.com - This is where I get my paint, lots of information about why latex paint (and generally wrapping in plastic) ruins the wood of a house. Past there, I really like a timber framer who does YouTube called Mr. Chickadee, guy was a Marine who decided to live a simple life. He hand makes everything, but don't let the old timey hat and pants fool you, he's spent a ton of time thinking about how the old methods work and why, and picking through multiple cultures that have had old wooden structures that last hundreds or even thousands of years for the techniques he's using.