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Mountaineer with a bunch of via Ferrata experience here, mainly in Europe. What's often forgot in discussions about these is that in spite of you being anchored

by jupp0r 3y ago

Mountaineer with a bunch of via Ferrata experience here, mainly in Europe. What's often forgot in discussions about these is that in spite of you being anchored to steel ropes, the consequences of a fall on these are pretty severe when compared to falling into a normal dynamic climbing rope (which is pretty normal and done all the time without problems in sports climbing). The physics of shock absorption by via ferrata equipment is not your friend here, a fall with a vertical slide to the next anchor 6ft below you is a ticket to the hospital, likely with permanent damage. Via ferratas can be fun, but you really don't want to fall, and if in doubt, do your research and get really good equipment.

dghlsakjg 3y ago
Is this still true if you use the appropriate shock links? Those are set up to limit the force up to a certain height, wouldn't they design those to limit the force to one less likely to cause permanent damage?
- lazide 3y ago
  It all depends on how you fall, what you hit and when, and what position your body is in at various stages of this. If you spend any time on a via ferrata, it’s pretty easy to see where the answers to one or more of these will be ‘not great’, and sometimes ‘really bad’. For instance, hitting a rung on the way down. Or getting an appendage caught behind something. But unlikely you’ll die. And honestly, you shouldn’t fall unless you screwed something up pretty bad to begin with, which is your primary protection anyway. You’re literally climbing a ladder, this isn’t wilderness trad climbing or developing some new route on loose rock.
  - krallistic 3y ago
    Death at Via Ferratas are extremely rare (with proper gear ofc). But the falls are notoriously hard. Force can get really high and the chance of injury is high, even in cases where the fall zone is free of any metal etc..
- sandworm101 3y ago
  >> use the appropriate shock links. Don't use these. They are generally one-use affairs. They have a place in climbing but only as part of a larger system. The issue is multiple falls. Say you slip and cause an impact. The link does its thing and extends. Now you are on the side of a cliff without proper equipment. A proper dynamic climbing rope, used properly, will safely take repeated falls.
  - luplex 3y ago
    They are absolutely the right equipment for the job. If you take a bad fall on your shock link, you likely need medical attention anyways. You won't keep climbing far with it.
    - lukeinator42 3y ago
      Exactly, and taking anything more than a fall-factor 2 even on dynamic rope will probably break your back. Here's an interesting video testing similar setups used in caving (without the obviously required via ferrata shock absorber): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWaDh6-roMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWaDh6-roMI
  - exabrial 3y ago
    This is one of the most misguided, misinformed, incorrect, and dangerous comments I’ve read on HN. Do NOT do this. You _will_ die from a relatively simple fall. ONLY use a proper via ferrata set on a via ferrata, with rip shock absorber rated to do so.
- ryeights 3y ago
  The answer IMO is using two prusik friction hitches. Easy to slide along the cable by hand when slack, but holds you in place via friction when taut (i.e when you slip). Of course these would be a pain to tie and untie at each anchor point
  - seandoe 3y ago
    Prusiks on metal cable? Come on now.
- jupp0r 3y ago
  If you don't use them and just run some webbing or similar, dynamic forces in a factor >2 fall will either snap your spine or the webbing, whichever gives in first. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_factor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_factor
- exabrial 3y ago
  Even with the ripstop shock absorber, it’s going to hurt the whole way down. You won’t die, but you won’t feel good either. There’s surprisingly few videos about this: https://youtu.be/A5w9Kkd-f2w https://youtu.be/A5w9Kkd-f2w Even in a lab setting, pretty violent.
Leherenn 3y ago
It's also very hard/impossible to climb back up depending on where you fall. It often requires an helicopter to get you out.
yread 3y ago
the dangerous part in falling when mountain climbing is almost always hitting the rock (and not the bottom) too. At least for via ferrata you're supposed to wear a helmet which few climbers do
- jupp0r 3y ago
  The difference is that in actual mountain climbing, people are usually experienced and equipped to gauge the risk of a fall and operate well within their range of capabilities. Via Ferrata is technically easy enough to attract less experienced people and steel ropes and ladders offer a false sense of security vs being the lead climber on an alpine climbing route with 60ft of run out above an anchor you built yourself.
exabrial 3y ago
In Europe, my Austrian friend said: “If we were using ropes, you’d be fine to fall. Do not fall on via ferrata today, I have dinner plans“

by jupp0r 3y ago

dghlsakjg 3y ago

Is this still true if you use the appropriate shock links? Those are set up to limit the force up to a certain height, wouldn't they design those to limit the force to one less likely to cause permanent damage?

lazide 3y ago
It all depends on how you fall, what you hit and when, and what position your body is in at various stages of this. If you spend any time on a via ferrata, it’s pretty easy to see where the answers to one or more of these will be ‘not great’, and sometimes ‘really bad’. For instance, hitting a rung on the way down. Or getting an appendage caught behind something. But unlikely you’ll die. And honestly, you shouldn’t fall unless you screwed something up pretty bad to begin with, which is your primary protection anyway. You’re literally climbing a ladder, this isn’t wilderness trad climbing or developing some new route on loose rock.
- krallistic 3y ago
  Death at Via Ferratas are extremely rare (with proper gear ofc). But the falls are notoriously hard. Force can get really high and the chance of injury is high, even in cases where the fall zone is free of any metal etc..
sandworm101 3y ago
>> use the appropriate shock links. Don't use these. They are generally one-use affairs. They have a place in climbing but only as part of a larger system. The issue is multiple falls. Say you slip and cause an impact. The link does its thing and extends. Now you are on the side of a cliff without proper equipment. A proper dynamic climbing rope, used properly, will safely take repeated falls.
- luplex 3y ago
  They are absolutely the right equipment for the job. If you take a bad fall on your shock link, you likely need medical attention anyways. You won't keep climbing far with it.
  - lukeinator42 3y ago
    Exactly, and taking anything more than a fall-factor 2 even on dynamic rope will probably break your back. Here's an interesting video testing similar setups used in caving (without the obviously required via ferrata shock absorber): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWaDh6-roMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWaDh6-roMI
- exabrial 3y ago
  This is one of the most misguided, misinformed, incorrect, and dangerous comments I’ve read on HN. Do NOT do this. You _will_ die from a relatively simple fall. ONLY use a proper via ferrata set on a via ferrata, with rip shock absorber rated to do so.
ryeights 3y ago
The answer IMO is using two prusik friction hitches. Easy to slide along the cable by hand when slack, but holds you in place via friction when taut (i.e when you slip). Of course these would be a pain to tie and untie at each anchor point
- seandoe 3y ago
  Prusiks on metal cable? Come on now.
jupp0r 3y ago
If you don't use them and just run some webbing or similar, dynamic forces in a factor >2 fall will either snap your spine or the webbing, whichever gives in first. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_factor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_factor
exabrial 3y ago
Even with the ripstop shock absorber, it’s going to hurt the whole way down. You won’t die, but you won’t feel good either. There’s surprisingly few videos about this: https://youtu.be/A5w9Kkd-f2w https://youtu.be/A5w9Kkd-f2w Even in a lab setting, pretty violent.

Leherenn 3y ago

It's also very hard/impossible to climb back up depending on where you fall. It often requires an helicopter to get you out.

yread 3y ago

the dangerous part in falling when mountain climbing is almost always hitting the rock (and not the bottom) too. At least for via ferrata you're supposed to wear a helmet which few climbers do

jupp0r 3y ago
The difference is that in actual mountain climbing, people are usually experienced and equipped to gauge the risk of a fall and operate well within their range of capabilities. Via Ferrata is technically easy enough to attract less experienced people and steel ropes and ladders offer a false sense of security vs being the lead climber on an alpine climbing route with 60ft of run out above an anchor you built yourself.

exabrial 3y ago

In Europe, my Austrian friend said: “If we were using ropes, you’d be fine to fall. Do not fall on via ferrata today, I have dinner plans“