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> Hidden as a orthodox priest! A throwback to the ancient world to the Middle Ages, hiding spies among the clergy!

by piva00 3y ago

dralley 3y ago
Don't have to go back that far - the current Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is "ex-"KGB
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  > the current Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is "ex-"KGB Seems related: Russia is more frequently arresting religious leaders (all sorts), typically on terrorism charges ref: https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/maksim-khalturin https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-v... ref: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/2/ukraine-court-puts-metropolitan-pavlo-under-house-arrest https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/2/ukraine-court-puts-m... ref: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/03/russia-jails-islamic-publisher-for-17-years-on-terrorism-charges-a80137 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/03/russia-jails-islam... ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/world/europe/russia-church-repression-siberia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/world/europe/russia-churc... ref: https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/medzhit-abdurakhmanov https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-v... 2000's sidebar: It killed me watching Russia overtly copy the US model of boogey-manning terrorism into an flexible excuse to expand State reach and power
  - dralley 3y ago
    er, copy? The first and second Chechen wars happened in the 1990s.
  - mandevil 3y ago
    In September 1999 a series of bombs tore apart four apartment buildings in three Russian cities, and the recently appointed (a month earlier) Prime Minister, a bright young former deputy mayor of St Petersburg named Vladimir Putin, whom no one had ever heard of and had many similarly positioned rivals, won a great deal of popularity for his handling of these "terrorist attacks" that killed 307 people, including re-invading Chechnya and starting the Second Chechen War. He then used that popularity to become essentially dictator for life. These bombings were blamed on Chechens- who hotly denied it. It has long been suspected- but not really proven- that the FSB was behind it, as a true False Flag operation to gin up support for invading Chechnya, done under the orders of former KGB/FSB agent Vladimir Putin who just happened to be the one to benefit most from the attacks. You can see the wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombing... to see more details on exactly what the evidence for this is, and the people who argue that there is just not enough evidence one way or another to assign responsibility. So, no, Russia was not "overtly copy the US model" if anything they were innovating it first and the US was copying.
    - lazide 3y ago
      [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(1889) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(1889)] Spanish American war? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident ] Gulf of Tonkin? The tail wagging the dog is as old as, well, government. Probably older. Nothing new under the sun, etc. etc.
ajuc 3y ago
Russian Orthodox church today is openly run by russian state officials, military, police, fsb members, etc. They are also openly supporting invasion of Ukraine as a kind of "holy war". The russian word for "non-government organization" is "foreign agent".
- MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
  > The russian word for "non-government organization" is "foreign agent". Thats pretty accurate though.
  - ajuc 3y ago
    It's not, and westerners who think they agree don't actually agree, they are just edgy. It's hard to even explain what it would mean to internalize this belief system. Let me try. We're you ever on an amateur IT conference? Comicon? Some sports event? Would it ever occur to you to assume some government is secretly behind it? When the Jehova witnesses or scientologists knock on your door - which government is financing them to do it and why? After all people don't do things for free.
    - brookst 3y ago
      It’s just the reductive pedantry that’s so popular on the internet. A CIA operative is the agent of a foreign government, therefore a foreign agent. A Doctors Without Borders medic is an agent of a foreign organization, therefore a foreign agent. Therefore CIA and DWB are essentially the same thing. Bonus points if you can find one case where a DWB volunteer also had ties to the CIA, which would totally expose the two orgs as being exactly the same in all ways at all times. For some reason people just can’t resist reductionism.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        > For some reason people just can’t resist reductionism. Being a bit reductive there, eh? :)

> Hidden as a orthodox priest! A throwback to the ancient world to the Middle Ages, hiding spies among the clergy!

by piva00 3y ago

> Hidden as a orthodox priest! A throwback to the ancient world to the Middle Ages, hiding spies among the clergy!

dralley 3y ago

Don't have to go back that far - the current Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is "ex-"KGB

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> the current Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is "ex-"KGB Seems related: Russia is more frequently arresting religious leaders (all sorts), typically on terrorism charges ref: https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/maksim-khalturin https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-v... ref: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/2/ukraine-court-puts-metropolitan-pavlo-under-house-arrest https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/2/ukraine-court-puts-m... ref: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/03/russia-jails-islamic-publisher-for-17-years-on-terrorism-charges-a80137 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/03/russia-jails-islam... ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/world/europe/russia-church-repression-siberia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/world/europe/russia-churc... ref: https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/medzhit-abdurakhmanov https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-v... 2000's sidebar: It killed me watching Russia overtly copy the US model of boogey-manning terrorism into an flexible excuse to expand State reach and power
- dralley 3y ago
  er, copy? The first and second Chechen wars happened in the 1990s.
- mandevil 3y ago
  In September 1999 a series of bombs tore apart four apartment buildings in three Russian cities, and the recently appointed (a month earlier) Prime Minister, a bright young former deputy mayor of St Petersburg named Vladimir Putin, whom no one had ever heard of and had many similarly positioned rivals, won a great deal of popularity for his handling of these "terrorist attacks" that killed 307 people, including re-invading Chechnya and starting the Second Chechen War. He then used that popularity to become essentially dictator for life. These bombings were blamed on Chechens- who hotly denied it. It has long been suspected- but not really proven- that the FSB was behind it, as a true False Flag operation to gin up support for invading Chechnya, done under the orders of former KGB/FSB agent Vladimir Putin who just happened to be the one to benefit most from the attacks. You can see the wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombing... to see more details on exactly what the evidence for this is, and the people who argue that there is just not enough evidence one way or another to assign responsibility. So, no, Russia was not "overtly copy the US model" if anything they were innovating it first and the US was copying.
  - lazide 3y ago
    [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(1889) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(1889)] Spanish American war? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident ] Gulf of Tonkin? The tail wagging the dog is as old as, well, government. Probably older. Nothing new under the sun, etc. etc.

ajuc 3y ago

Russian Orthodox church today is openly run by russian state officials, military, police, fsb members, etc. They are also openly supporting invasion of Ukraine as a kind of "holy war". The russian word for "non-government organization" is "foreign agent".

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
> The russian word for "non-government organization" is "foreign agent". Thats pretty accurate though.
- ajuc 3y ago
  It's not, and westerners who think they agree don't actually agree, they are just edgy. It's hard to even explain what it would mean to internalize this belief system. Let me try. We're you ever on an amateur IT conference? Comicon? Some sports event? Would it ever occur to you to assume some government is secretly behind it? When the Jehova witnesses or scientologists knock on your door - which government is financing them to do it and why? After all people don't do things for free.
  - brookst 3y ago
    It’s just the reductive pedantry that’s so popular on the internet. A CIA operative is the agent of a foreign government, therefore a foreign agent. A Doctors Without Borders medic is an agent of a foreign organization, therefore a foreign agent. Therefore CIA and DWB are essentially the same thing. Bonus points if you can find one case where a DWB volunteer also had ties to the CIA, which would totally expose the two orgs as being exactly the same in all ways at all times. For some reason people just can’t resist reductionism.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      > For some reason people just can’t resist reductionism. Being a bit reductive there, eh? :)