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We've had reporting about how involved the CIA was in Ukraine from 2014 onwards (eg, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russ

by roenxi 3y ago

We've had reporting about how involved the CIA was in Ukraine from 2014 onwards (eg, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-...). I was thinking about that when I wrote it. It looks a lot like they've set up a puppet government in Ukraine, it seems a bit incredible that level of trust just developed out of the blue after Euromaidan. And the CIA would have been almost negligent not to be involved in managing the Euromaidan. It'd line up well with the leaked recordings of Victoria Nuland discussing who should be in government, the relatively suicidal stance Ukraine then took towards diplomacy with Russia and just be in character for the CIA. I'd imagine the Belarusian government would look at that and much rather be using Huawei tech then Cisco. The risks are pretty obvious and one sided. And I doubt Ukraine is the only place the CIA have been moving in to in the east; any government in the region should be worried about US involvement in their politics.

Paradigma11 3y ago
The only reason the Euromaidan happened was, because Janukovych ran on a pro EU platform and promised an association agreement with the EU. The day before signing that agreement he got bought off by Putin and proclaimed that Ukraine would instead join a customs union with Russia and Belarus. No population would allow such a shameless betrayal without massive protests. This was completely on Russia and Janukovych without any possible influence of the CIA. The Nuland phone call was after Janukovych fled the country even though an agreement had been reached. And yes, Nuland had an opinion on what a solution could/should look like.
khokhol 3y ago
It looks a lot like they've set up a puppet government in Ukraine It "looks like", but only if we glance casually at a couple of articles (or sometimes even just headlines of articles) here and there, without taking the time to, like, actually read them. Or we pick up random partial factoids (like about the Nuland cable), and we start thinking "Hmm, this would align with [some vastly larger mental model we have the world works]" without stopping to think about what the factoid is actually about, or whether it actually has much of any significance to begin with. What you have here is article that says "CIA, Ukraine" and you're thinking right way it's about Ukraine being a puppet state. But that's not something the article asserts, or even comes close to talking about as a topic.
snowpid 3y ago
well look a conspiracy theorist. How many Ukrainians have you meet in whole life?

by roenxi 3y ago

Paradigma11 3y ago

The only reason the Euromaidan happened was, because Janukovych ran on a pro EU platform and promised an association agreement with the EU. The day before signing that agreement he got bought off by Putin and proclaimed that Ukraine would instead join a customs union with Russia and Belarus. No population would allow such a shameless betrayal without massive protests. This was completely on Russia and Janukovych without any possible influence of the CIA. The Nuland phone call was after Janukovych fled the country even though an agreement had been reached. And yes, Nuland had an opinion on what a solution could/should look like.

khokhol 3y ago

It looks a lot like they've set up a puppet government in Ukraine It "looks like", but only if we glance casually at a couple of articles (or sometimes even just headlines of articles) here and there, without taking the time to, like, actually read them. Or we pick up random partial factoids (like about the Nuland cable), and we start thinking "Hmm, this would align with [some vastly larger mental model we have the world works]" without stopping to think about what the factoid is actually about, or whether it actually has much of any significance to begin with. What you have here is article that says "CIA, Ukraine" and you're thinking right way it's about Ukraine being a puppet state. But that's not something the article asserts, or even comes close to talking about as a topic.

snowpid 3y ago

well look a conspiracy theorist. How many Ukrainians have you meet in whole life?