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It is terribly revealing about what the US has been up to that the minute they realise Huawei is more cost competitive they develop a rip and replace program to

by roenxi 3y ago

It is terribly revealing about what the US has been up to that the minute they realise Huawei is more cost competitive they develop a rip and replace program to get Chinese gear out of the system. They understand what is possible; and likely because someone in the intelligence apparatus wrote a report saying "the Chinese could [do this thing we are doing]".

kortilla 3y ago
There isn’t anything magic here. It’s not that China would have particularly special capabilities over this equipment. It’s that it’s so full of vulnerabilities that any nation state (or really any determined good hacker) can get into these systems.
- jajko 3y ago
  Was there any comparison actually done between various providers that didn't stay within some 3-letter agency like NSA? Generally a lot of equipment is full of holes and its nigh impossible to keep track if every year there is new version, scales of this matter of course but this move specifically nicely aligns into general start of US trade war with China. Also, to most of the world whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference, both can and will be used against given country when decided (ie secret services helping 'their' big companies win big contracts due to leaking some related secrets, many cases like this in the past).
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference It does make a practical difference. It is better to be spied on by the weakest power. That is probably still China if we blindly guess that their GDP is overstated and note that their military is less adventurous than the US. In the Middle East, Eastern Europe and maybe Africa there is actually a good chance that the US spying will be used to overthrow your government or literally build an invasion plan. I have no idea how active they are in South America but I assume the sausage making process is ugly there too. I don't think China has been accused of doing either yet although I assume it is going to get started on government-toppling sooner or later. India would be in a tough spot though. They should probably figure out how to produce telecoms gear through native companies if they haven't already.
    - snowpid 3y ago
      " In the Middle East, Eastern Europe and maybe Africa there is actually a good chance that the US spying will be used to overthrow your government " I like to know more about those Eastern Europe US - controlled coups I didn't know about.
      - Intermernet 3y ago
        Post cold war, the US have been very interested in having friendly governments in the previous eastern bloc nations. This hasn't been evident in actual coups, it's evident when you follow so called soft politics. Look at trade agreements, vocal support, NATO status etc for clues here. The US knows how to manipulate with both the carrot and the stick.
        snowpid 3y ago
        Do you can imagine any other reason despite "carrot and stick" why these governments were friendly to the US? And yes, soft power and coups are two very different things.
      - roenxi 3y ago
        We've had reporting about how involved the CIA was in Ukraine from 2014 onwards (eg, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-...). I was thinking about that when I wrote it. It looks a lot like they've set up a puppet government in Ukraine, it seems a bit incredible that level of trust just developed out of the blue after Euromaidan. And the CIA would have been almost negligent not to be involved in managing the Euromaidan. It'd line up well with the leaked recordings of Victoria Nuland discussing who should be in government, the relatively suicidal stance Ukraine then took towards diplomacy with Russia and just be in character for the CIA. I'd imagine the Belarusian government would look at that and much rather be using Huawei tech then Cisco. The risks are pretty obvious and one sided. And I doubt Ukraine is the only place the CIA have been moving in to in the east; any government in the region should be worried about US involvement in their politics.

by roenxi 3y ago

kortilla 3y ago

There isn’t anything magic here. It’s not that China would have particularly special capabilities over this equipment. It’s that it’s so full of vulnerabilities that any nation state (or really any determined good hacker) can get into these systems.

jajko 3y ago
Was there any comparison actually done between various providers that didn't stay within some 3-letter agency like NSA? Generally a lot of equipment is full of holes and its nigh impossible to keep track if every year there is new version, scales of this matter of course but this move specifically nicely aligns into general start of US trade war with China. Also, to most of the world whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference, both can and will be used against given country when decided (ie secret services helping 'their' big companies win big contracts due to leaking some related secrets, many cases like this in the past).
- roenxi 3y ago
  > whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference It does make a practical difference. It is better to be spied on by the weakest power. That is probably still China if we blindly guess that their GDP is overstated and note that their military is less adventurous than the US. In the Middle East, Eastern Europe and maybe Africa there is actually a good chance that the US spying will be used to overthrow your government or literally build an invasion plan. I have no idea how active they are in South America but I assume the sausage making process is ugly there too. I don't think China has been accused of doing either yet although I assume it is going to get started on government-toppling sooner or later. India would be in a tough spot though. They should probably figure out how to produce telecoms gear through native companies if they haven't already.
  - snowpid 3y ago
    " In the Middle East, Eastern Europe and maybe Africa there is actually a good chance that the US spying will be used to overthrow your government " I like to know more about those Eastern Europe US - controlled coups I didn't know about.
    - Intermernet 3y ago
      Post cold war, the US have been very interested in having friendly governments in the previous eastern bloc nations. This hasn't been evident in actual coups, it's evident when you follow so called soft politics. Look at trade agreements, vocal support, NATO status etc for clues here. The US knows how to manipulate with both the carrot and the stick.
      - snowpid 3y ago
        Do you can imagine any other reason despite "carrot and stick" why these governments were friendly to the US? And yes, soft power and coups are two very different things.
    - roenxi 3y ago
      We've had reporting about how involved the CIA was in Ukraine from 2014 onwards (eg, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-shadow-war-russia/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/23/ukraine-cia-...). I was thinking about that when I wrote it. It looks a lot like they've set up a puppet government in Ukraine, it seems a bit incredible that level of trust just developed out of the blue after Euromaidan. And the CIA would have been almost negligent not to be involved in managing the Euromaidan. It'd line up well with the leaked recordings of Victoria Nuland discussing who should be in government, the relatively suicidal stance Ukraine then took towards diplomacy with Russia and just be in character for the CIA. I'd imagine the Belarusian government would look at that and much rather be using Huawei tech then Cisco. The risks are pretty obvious and one sided. And I doubt Ukraine is the only place the CIA have been moving in to in the east; any government in the region should be worried about US involvement in their politics.