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The health system is not free nor is it government subsidised. It is paid for from taxes, which people pay according to their income. There is no additional c

The health system is not free nor is it government subsidised. It is paid for from taxes, which people pay according to their income. There is no additional charge to then use the system other than paying taxes. (IMHO this is a good thing and it is fair.) In the US it is a complete mess. Half of all healthcare spending is done by the government anyway (Medicare, Medicaid, government employees, army/veterans etc) and hence paid for by tax payers according to their income but not available to most taxpayers. The other half is paid for by charities, individuals, companies and by taxpayers (the government chooses not to collect tax on premiums paid by companies). Add in "insurance" companies which act as middle men between the payments and the healthcare delivery, plus a lot of regulation, and a large number of people whose jobs are to try and increase or decrease payments from the other groups and the whole thing is an unholy mess.

Tichy 15y ago
It's not the same in all European countries. I think in the UK it is like you describe. I was quite shocked, however, when I heard about the typical wait times for things like broken teeth or bones (weeks - that was 18 years ago, though, don't know the current state). In Germany there are specific health insurances you have to pick. However it has become mandatory to have health insurance a couple of years ago, and the public insurers may not reject you.
- rogerbinns 15y ago
  Are the health insurance plans means tested? ie does a millionaire pay the same as someone who is unemployed? Does the government also contribute some money behind the scenes? In the UK dentistry is not covered by the National Health Service. (More accurately it can be but the vast majority of dentists opt out.) As for waiting lists the UK did significantly increase spending in order to reduce them. (The UK also had one of the lowest per capita spending rates in the EU.) However every health system anywhere has to do some form of rationing. There aren't an infinite number of beds, doctors, machines, or money for that matter. When there is some waiting then whatever is being waited on can achieve 100% utilization although queues can easily get out of hand. How to do the rationing is very tricky. Ultimately some value has to be put on human life. Spending $5000 on a course of treatment instead of $100,000 where the latter has 5% better outcomes needs to be decided.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    The public insurance companies basically all offer the same coverage (defined by laws) for the same price. They used to differ slightly in price but the government made that illegal. Now they try to differentiate on little things, like paying for Yoga classes. Dentistry can get expensive, as only amalgam fillings are covered by insurance. If you want other fillings (without quicksilver) you have to pay extra.
  - Joeboy 15y ago
    > In the UK dentistry is not covered by the National Health Service. (More accurately it can be but the vast majority of dentists opt out.) I don't know about the whole country, but in the cities I've lived in recently it's been no problem to get NHS dental care, at least for the basics. I guess I can't fault your words technically, but I think "In the UK dentistry is covered by the National Health Service" would be at least as accurate as your version.
    - rogerbinns 15y ago
      In the cities I lived in in the UK (west London, Cambridge) it was impossible to get NHS dentists and there were very few of them. They even had waiting lists to join. Admittedly this was over a decade ago. Perhaps the intervening years of increased spending has had an effect. Or maybe it is correlated with the cost of living - more expensive areas mean dentists want the higher private income?
- jahewson 15y ago
  No the UK does not make you wait weeks for broken bones. That would never make sense, because the bone would have healed in that time in the incorrect position, and then require expensive surgery to re-set it. It's so obviously nonsense.
  - jodrellblank 15y ago
    Maybe not habitually, but it's not unheard of. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2672411/Crippled-man-up-in-arms-over-NHS.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2672411/Crippled-m... Circumstances seem to be debatable, though.
  - ktizo 15y ago
    In the UK for serious broken bones is about half an hour to an hour, in my experience. Broken wrist, ribs, elbow, skull, pelvis and ankle, so far. I'd be broke or dead in many other countries by now. The inpatient care can be a bit hit and miss, but A&E is generally awesome.
    - troels 15y ago
      Either you're seriously clumsy or you just have a really big portion of bad luck!
      - ktizo 15y ago
        More an ability to be exceptionally stupid when drunk.
        Tichy 15y ago
        No offense, but wouldn't that imply that you are stupid when not drunk, as you consciously decide to get drunk?
        ktizo 15y ago
        I can be amazingly stupid when sober, this is true, especially for the first 30 minutes after waking up. But to really screw things up there is normally booze involved. As for consciously deciding to get drunk when sober, I normally decide to get tipsy. It is when I am tipsy that I decide to get absolutely hammered. But then again according to statistics, drinkers live longer, have more sex and have higher IQs than teetotallers, plus for most of human history it was one of the few sources of clean water, so is not an entirely stupid activity.
andrewflnr 15y ago
What is the difference between "subsidized by the government" and "paid for from taxes"? Maybe you could draw a distinction if a specific segment of taxes went to healthcare and nothing else, but that seems a thin semantic distinction at best.
- rogerbinns 15y ago
  The OP wording implied that the healthcare was free and the costs were mostly borne by "them" (the government). Although it is technically correct that the government is the people/tax payers, voter turnout has (mostly) been steadily decreasing. For non-voters the government is "them", not "us".
  - jopt 15y ago
    Don't you mean "for non-tax-payers?"
    - rogerbinns 15y ago
      Everyone is a tax payer. Based on income the amount you may end up paying on your tax return is zero. Of course no one actually ends up paying zero. There are usually sales or value added taxes. Even if those direct taxes do not exist, you'll still pay indirect taxes. When you buy a product or consume a service the amount that goes back to the producer includes money that they then use to pay taxes.

Tichy 15y ago

It's not the same in all European countries. I think in the UK it is like you describe. I was quite shocked, however, when I heard about the typical wait times for things like broken teeth or bones (weeks - that was 18 years ago, though, don't know the current state). In Germany there are specific health insurances you have to pick. However it has become mandatory to have health insurance a couple of years ago, and the public insurers may not reject you.

rogerbinns 15y ago
Are the health insurance plans means tested? ie does a millionaire pay the same as someone who is unemployed? Does the government also contribute some money behind the scenes? In the UK dentistry is not covered by the National Health Service. (More accurately it can be but the vast majority of dentists opt out.) As for waiting lists the UK did significantly increase spending in order to reduce them. (The UK also had one of the lowest per capita spending rates in the EU.) However every health system anywhere has to do some form of rationing. There aren't an infinite number of beds, doctors, machines, or money for that matter. When there is some waiting then whatever is being waited on can achieve 100% utilization although queues can easily get out of hand. How to do the rationing is very tricky. Ultimately some value has to be put on human life. Spending $5000 on a course of treatment instead of $100,000 where the latter has 5% better outcomes needs to be decided.
- Tichy 15y ago
  The public insurance companies basically all offer the same coverage (defined by laws) for the same price. They used to differ slightly in price but the government made that illegal. Now they try to differentiate on little things, like paying for Yoga classes. Dentistry can get expensive, as only amalgam fillings are covered by insurance. If you want other fillings (without quicksilver) you have to pay extra.
- Joeboy 15y ago
  > In the UK dentistry is not covered by the National Health Service. (More accurately it can be but the vast majority of dentists opt out.) I don't know about the whole country, but in the cities I've lived in recently it's been no problem to get NHS dental care, at least for the basics. I guess I can't fault your words technically, but I think "In the UK dentistry is covered by the National Health Service" would be at least as accurate as your version.
  - rogerbinns 15y ago
    In the cities I lived in in the UK (west London, Cambridge) it was impossible to get NHS dentists and there were very few of them. They even had waiting lists to join. Admittedly this was over a decade ago. Perhaps the intervening years of increased spending has had an effect. Or maybe it is correlated with the cost of living - more expensive areas mean dentists want the higher private income?
jahewson 15y ago
No the UK does not make you wait weeks for broken bones. That would never make sense, because the bone would have healed in that time in the incorrect position, and then require expensive surgery to re-set it. It's so obviously nonsense.
- jodrellblank 15y ago
  Maybe not habitually, but it's not unheard of. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2672411/Crippled-man-up-in-arms-over-NHS.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2672411/Crippled-m... Circumstances seem to be debatable, though.
- ktizo 15y ago
  In the UK for serious broken bones is about half an hour to an hour, in my experience. Broken wrist, ribs, elbow, skull, pelvis and ankle, so far. I'd be broke or dead in many other countries by now. The inpatient care can be a bit hit and miss, but A&E is generally awesome.
  - troels 15y ago
    Either you're seriously clumsy or you just have a really big portion of bad luck!
    - ktizo 15y ago
      More an ability to be exceptionally stupid when drunk.
      - Tichy 15y ago
        No offense, but wouldn't that imply that you are stupid when not drunk, as you consciously decide to get drunk?
        ktizo 15y ago
        I can be amazingly stupid when sober, this is true, especially for the first 30 minutes after waking up. But to really screw things up there is normally booze involved. As for consciously deciding to get drunk when sober, I normally decide to get tipsy. It is when I am tipsy that I decide to get absolutely hammered. But then again according to statistics, drinkers live longer, have more sex and have higher IQs than teetotallers, plus for most of human history it was one of the few sources of clean water, so is not an entirely stupid activity.

andrewflnr 15y ago

What is the difference between "subsidized by the government" and "paid for from taxes"? Maybe you could draw a distinction if a specific segment of taxes went to healthcare and nothing else, but that seems a thin semantic distinction at best.

rogerbinns 15y ago
The OP wording implied that the healthcare was free and the costs were mostly borne by "them" (the government). Although it is technically correct that the government is the people/tax payers, voter turnout has (mostly) been steadily decreasing. For non-voters the government is "them", not "us".
- jopt 15y ago
  Don't you mean "for non-tax-payers?"
  - rogerbinns 15y ago
    Everyone is a tax payer. Based on income the amount you may end up paying on your tax return is zero. Of course no one actually ends up paying zero. There are usually sales or value added taxes. Even if those direct taxes do not exist, you'll still pay indirect taxes. When you buy a product or consume a service the amount that goes back to the producer includes money that they then use to pay taxes.