4 ms·

Taxes not paid by private entities are, by definition, money out of the public coffer.

ars 3y ago
How far will you take that? Do buisiness owe all of their profit as tax? At some point you say "this is your tax", that doesn't mean that all other profit is money out of the public coffer. Governments do not tax all money.
- arrosenberg 3y ago
  > Governments do not tax all money No one said they did. I said all private money is money not available to the public. If Facebook bribes legislators to carve out tax loopholes for them, that money stays private, therefore it's denied to the public coffers. Aside from any offended libertarian sensibilities, what part of that do you disagree with?
  - ars 3y ago
    I don't understand what the bribe has to do with anything. Did you just put that in there for an emotional response? According to you, all money belonging to everyone is really tax money that has been stolen from the people. There are some people who think like that but it's definitely an unusual approach. I'm sure you know what that form of society is called.
    - arrosenberg 3y ago
      > I don't understand what the bribe has to do with anything. I'm responding to a thread about Facebook "lobbying" legislators for tax carve outs. I choose to call it what it is - a bribe. > According to you, all money belonging to everyone is really tax money that has been stolen from the people. Im not going to argue for a position I never took. I said that taxes avoided is money denied to the public. You called it theft, because thats your libertarian ideology poking through.
      - ars 3y ago
        > I'm responding to a thread about Facebook "lobbying" legislators for tax carve outs. Yah, that's not what the thread said. Facebook is simply deducting a business expense, there was no carve out. > I choose to call it what it is - a bribe. Except there was no bribe, you just made something up. > You called it theft, because thats your libertarian ideology poking through. I did not call it theft and I'm not a libertarian. > I said that taxes avoided is money denied to the public. I said that there is no such concept as "taxes avoided". That not something that exists. You can't "avoid" taxes, either you need to pay them or you don't. It's not a thing to be able to just "avoid" them. You are arguing imaginary thing that never happened, and using concepts that don't exist to make your point.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    If elected legislators pass laws creating legal means to lower one's tax burden, the means in which the law was passed only matters to ensure it was legal. Our system is much too complicated and corruptible today. It shouldn't be so easy to effectively buy legislation, but as long as it is legal we can't really fault anyone with the means from taking advantage. If Facebook bribes legislators in an illegal way they should be held to account, otherwise laws should be changed and legislators should be resigned in through both elections and checks and balances.
johngladtj 3y ago
Sure, in the same way that you not donating your home to the state is money out of the public coffers as well.
- arrosenberg 3y ago
  That is true. You understand that right? Like, a donation is voluntary, taxes aren't and you think that makes them theft, I get all that. If I choose not to donate my house to the state, it is literally money denied to the public coffers. In the case of my home, the state has no expectation or entitlement to receive it. One could argue the same in the case of Facebook bribing legislators to get tax carve outs. I wouldn't (because it's very corrupt), but one could.
_heimdall 3y ago
Only if the taxes are actually owed. If an entity lowers their tax burden legally then the public was never owed the money. I don't agree with this model and would much prefer a simple tax code. But as-is, its disingenuous to say that taxes unpaid because one finds a legal way to avoid owing them is taking out of the public coffers. One can't take money that was never owed in the first place.

ars 3y ago

How far will you take that? Do buisiness owe all of their profit as tax? At some point you say "this is your tax", that doesn't mean that all other profit is money out of the public coffer. Governments do not tax all money.

arrosenberg 3y ago
> Governments do not tax all money No one said they did. I said all private money is money not available to the public. If Facebook bribes legislators to carve out tax loopholes for them, that money stays private, therefore it's denied to the public coffers. Aside from any offended libertarian sensibilities, what part of that do you disagree with?
- ars 3y ago
  I don't understand what the bribe has to do with anything. Did you just put that in there for an emotional response? According to you, all money belonging to everyone is really tax money that has been stolen from the people. There are some people who think like that but it's definitely an unusual approach. I'm sure you know what that form of society is called.
  - arrosenberg 3y ago
    > I don't understand what the bribe has to do with anything. I'm responding to a thread about Facebook "lobbying" legislators for tax carve outs. I choose to call it what it is - a bribe. > According to you, all money belonging to everyone is really tax money that has been stolen from the people. Im not going to argue for a position I never took. I said that taxes avoided is money denied to the public. You called it theft, because thats your libertarian ideology poking through.
    - ars 3y ago
      > I'm responding to a thread about Facebook "lobbying" legislators for tax carve outs. Yah, that's not what the thread said. Facebook is simply deducting a business expense, there was no carve out. > I choose to call it what it is - a bribe. Except there was no bribe, you just made something up. > You called it theft, because thats your libertarian ideology poking through. I did not call it theft and I'm not a libertarian. > I said that taxes avoided is money denied to the public. I said that there is no such concept as "taxes avoided". That not something that exists. You can't "avoid" taxes, either you need to pay them or you don't. It's not a thing to be able to just "avoid" them. You are arguing imaginary thing that never happened, and using concepts that don't exist to make your point.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- _heimdall 3y ago
  If elected legislators pass laws creating legal means to lower one's tax burden, the means in which the law was passed only matters to ensure it was legal. Our system is much too complicated and corruptible today. It shouldn't be so easy to effectively buy legislation, but as long as it is legal we can't really fault anyone with the means from taking advantage. If Facebook bribes legislators in an illegal way they should be held to account, otherwise laws should be changed and legislators should be resigned in through both elections and checks and balances.

johngladtj 3y ago

Sure, in the same way that you not donating your home to the state is money out of the public coffers as well.

arrosenberg 3y ago
That is true. You understand that right? Like, a donation is voluntary, taxes aren't and you think that makes them theft, I get all that. If I choose not to donate my house to the state, it is literally money denied to the public coffers. In the case of my home, the state has no expectation or entitlement to receive it. One could argue the same in the case of Facebook bribing legislators to get tax carve outs. I wouldn't (because it's very corrupt), but one could.

_heimdall 3y ago

Only if the taxes are actually owed. If an entity lowers their tax burden legally then the public was never owed the money. I don't agree with this model and would much prefer a simple tax code. But as-is, its disingenuous to say that taxes unpaid because one finds a legal way to avoid owing them is taking out of the public coffers. One can't take money that was never owed in the first place.