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The German government has given providers until 2026 to reduce their exposure to high risk vendors (Huawei and ZTE) to less than 25% of equipment, with a comple

by mike_d 3y ago

The German government has given providers until 2026 to reduce their exposure to high risk vendors (Huawei and ZTE) to less than 25% of equipment, with a complete ban in places like the capitol and near military bases. Basically the same problem played out in the US as well, where smaller operators looking to offset massive hardware costs for 5G upgrades selected high risk vendors who came in well below cost to establish a spying foothold in our telecom networks. The FCC handed out almost $2 billion last year to help these networks rip and replace.

culopatin 3y ago
What a deal would be to buy second hand Chinese equipment at a discount to then ask the FCC to help you change it…
- huggingmouth 3y ago
  With (deserved) increased scrutiny in Huawei and friends, I'm half tempted to get the discarded gear to actually put in production use. China/Huawei is no longer in a position to pull something stupid. Current gen functioning gear at a discount price will be very tempting.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    What do you mean? China has economic problems, but international escalation is often a great way to distract from donestic problems.
  - unmole 3y ago
    Huawei was always subject to a much higher level of scrutiny for obvious reasons. In the UK, for example since around 2010, Huawei turned over code to an independent oversight board: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/huawei-cyber-security-evaluation-centre-hcsec-oversight-board-annual-report-2021 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/huawei-cyber-secu...
rfoo 3y ago
> came in well below cost Could you please suggest some read on why equipments are considered coming in well below cost? Haven't heard this before.
- crotchfire 3y ago
  https://www.seattleix.net/infrastructure-history https://www.seattleix.net/infrastructure-history Note the dates the Huawei CE12808 was put into and taken out of service. Less than one year.
roenxi 3y ago
It is terribly revealing about what the US has been up to that the minute they realise Huawei is more cost competitive they develop a rip and replace program to get Chinese gear out of the system. They understand what is possible; and likely because someone in the intelligence apparatus wrote a report saying "the Chinese could [do this thing we are doing]".
- kortilla 3y ago
  There isn’t anything magic here. It’s not that China would have particularly special capabilities over this equipment. It’s that it’s so full of vulnerabilities that any nation state (or really any determined good hacker) can get into these systems.
  - jajko 3y ago
    Was there any comparison actually done between various providers that didn't stay within some 3-letter agency like NSA? Generally a lot of equipment is full of holes and its nigh impossible to keep track if every year there is new version, scales of this matter of course but this move specifically nicely aligns into general start of US trade war with China. Also, to most of the world whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference, both can and will be used against given country when decided (ie secret services helping 'their' big companies win big contracts due to leaking some related secrets, many cases like this in the past).
    - roenxi 3y ago
      > whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference It does make a practical difference. It is better to be spied on by the weakest power. That is probably still China if we blindly guess that their GDP is overstated and note that their military is less adventurous than the US. In the Middle East, Eastern Europe and maybe Africa there is actually a good chance that the US spying will be used to overthrow your government or literally build an invasion plan. I have no idea how active they are in South America but I assume the sausage making process is ugly there too. I don't think China has been accused of doing either yet although I assume it is going to get started on government-toppling sooner or later. India would be in a tough spot though. They should probably figure out how to produce telecoms gear through native companies if they haven't already.

by mike_d 3y ago

culopatin 3y ago

What a deal would be to buy second hand Chinese equipment at a discount to then ask the FCC to help you change it…

huggingmouth 3y ago
With (deserved) increased scrutiny in Huawei and friends, I'm half tempted to get the discarded gear to actually put in production use. China/Huawei is no longer in a position to pull something stupid. Current gen functioning gear at a discount price will be very tempting.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  What do you mean? China has economic problems, but international escalation is often a great way to distract from donestic problems.
- unmole 3y ago
  Huawei was always subject to a much higher level of scrutiny for obvious reasons. In the UK, for example since around 2010, Huawei turned over code to an independent oversight board: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/huawei-cyber-security-evaluation-centre-hcsec-oversight-board-annual-report-2021 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/huawei-cyber-secu...

rfoo 3y ago

> came in well below cost Could you please suggest some read on why equipments are considered coming in well below cost? Haven't heard this before.

crotchfire 3y ago
https://www.seattleix.net/infrastructure-history https://www.seattleix.net/infrastructure-history Note the dates the Huawei CE12808 was put into and taken out of service. Less than one year.

roenxi 3y ago

It is terribly revealing about what the US has been up to that the minute they realise Huawei is more cost competitive they develop a rip and replace program to get Chinese gear out of the system. They understand what is possible; and likely because someone in the intelligence apparatus wrote a report saying "the Chinese could [do this thing we are doing]".

kortilla 3y ago
There isn’t anything magic here. It’s not that China would have particularly special capabilities over this equipment. It’s that it’s so full of vulnerabilities that any nation state (or really any determined good hacker) can get into these systems.
- jajko 3y ago
  Was there any comparison actually done between various providers that didn't stay within some 3-letter agency like NSA? Generally a lot of equipment is full of holes and its nigh impossible to keep track if every year there is new version, scales of this matter of course but this move specifically nicely aligns into general start of US trade war with China. Also, to most of the world whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference, both can and will be used against given country when decided (ie secret services helping 'their' big companies win big contracts due to leaking some related secrets, many cases like this in the past).
  - roenxi 3y ago
    > whether US is spying or China is makes 0 practical difference It does make a practical difference. It is better to be spied on by the weakest power. That is probably still China if we blindly guess that their GDP is overstated and note that their military is less adventurous than the US. In the Middle East, Eastern Europe and maybe Africa there is actually a good chance that the US spying will be used to overthrow your government or literally build an invasion plan. I have no idea how active they are in South America but I assume the sausage making process is ugly there too. I don't think China has been accused of doing either yet although I assume it is going to get started on government-toppling sooner or later. India would be in a tough spot though. They should probably figure out how to produce telecoms gear through native companies if they haven't already.