8 ms·

Could you share any evidence-based arguments against the evidence-based statements and recommendations summarized in the article? What fatal flaws undermine the

Could you share any evidence-based arguments against the evidence-based statements and recommendations summarized in the article? What fatal flaws undermine the research in the linked CDC page[1] establishing a causal link between alcohol consumption and DNA damage and increased risk of cancers of the mouth and throat, larynx, esophagus, liver, colon and rectum, and breast in women? [1] https://blogs.cdc.gov/cancer/2018/04/02/3-weird-things-about-acetaldehyde/ https://blogs.cdc.gov/cancer/2018/04/02/3-weird-things-about...

tptacek 3y ago
All sorts of things elevate all kind of risks of cancer, but this is one of the few we moralize this way.
- daseiner1 3y ago
  because those other things, on the whole, do not destroy people and their families in as acute a manner as alcohol and alcoholism do.
  - ta2234234242 3y ago
    On the other hand, what exactly is freedom?
    - galaxyLogic 3y ago
      Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    Then make that argument, and leave the cancer argument, which is easily knocked down, aside.
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      What are you asserting?
      - tptacek 3y ago
        That the "cancer" argument about alcohol is special pleading.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        What would motivate false claims that alcohol correlates with cancer incidence?
        tptacek 3y ago
        I didn't say the science is wrong, I said the argument is special pleading.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        What is special pleading? I’m a native speaker and think you are too but have no idea what you’re saying.
        tptacek 3y ago
        You can just Google the term.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  No moralizing required. The pandemic measures in some states made liquor and drink delivery easier or legal and frankly glorified alcohol consumption. My friends in New York who own a liquor store 5x their sales and moved into an old big box storefront. Returning to 2019 regulatory framework is not prohibition nor blue laws. It would likely reduce alot of human suffering without impacting moderate drinkers.
  - Aloha 3y ago
    What in the regulatory framework substantively changed? The only thing I can recall was to-go liquor sales with takeout - which I strongly suspect is not a big mover of change here.
    - Spooky23 3y ago
      In New York, bars are able to sell booze for off premises consumption. Delivery of packaged liquor also became more available. It facilitates alot of work day drinking and bad outcomes for people with problems.
      - Aloha 3y ago
        I think its worth studying - but I suspect that's nipping around the edges again - if you're dying of alcohol related illnesses, its from buying sizable quantities of booze at the place that sells booze - not a beer with lunch.
- DinaCoder99 3y ago
  ? Really? Neuroticism about health is one of the most common vectors for modern secular americans to moralize at all. Just look how worked up people get about obesity and smoking, both of which are very high risk factors for (among many other health risks) cancer. Alcohol is actually uniquely celebrated by people who are otherwise very concerned about health from my perspective.
ta2234234242 3y ago
This isn't the place for an academic forum. Your audience isn't here. Also, he's not your monkey.
- EForEndeavour 3y ago
  OP was the one to mention scientific research, not me. They effectively wrote "science? Policy? Ha! Prohibition was bad." Am I wrong to want to continue the discussion?
leetcrew 3y ago
talking past each other... I don't think anyone here seriously doubts whether alcohol consumption carries health risks or whether increasing excise tax decreases consumption (although they might quibble on the degree for each). the question is more around how much the government should intervene to limit poor personal choices. there aren't enough peer reviewed studies in the world to answer that.
- vintermann 3y ago
  Or whether it's right to see it as just a "personal choice". How we should view alcohol (and alcohol profits) is a choice we take together as a society, whether through institutions or not.

tptacek 3y ago

All sorts of things elevate all kind of risks of cancer, but this is one of the few we moralize this way.

daseiner1 3y ago
because those other things, on the whole, do not destroy people and their families in as acute a manner as alcohol and alcoholism do.
- ta2234234242 3y ago
  On the other hand, what exactly is freedom?
  - galaxyLogic 3y ago
    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
- tptacek 3y ago
  Then make that argument, and leave the cancer argument, which is easily knocked down, aside.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    What are you asserting?
    - tptacek 3y ago
      That the "cancer" argument about alcohol is special pleading.
      - jjtheblunt 3y ago
        What would motivate false claims that alcohol correlates with cancer incidence?
        tptacek 3y ago
        I didn't say the science is wrong, I said the argument is special pleading.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        What is special pleading? I’m a native speaker and think you are too but have no idea what you’re saying.
        tptacek 3y ago
        You can just Google the term.
Spooky23 3y ago
No moralizing required. The pandemic measures in some states made liquor and drink delivery easier or legal and frankly glorified alcohol consumption. My friends in New York who own a liquor store 5x their sales and moved into an old big box storefront. Returning to 2019 regulatory framework is not prohibition nor blue laws. It would likely reduce alot of human suffering without impacting moderate drinkers.
- Aloha 3y ago
  What in the regulatory framework substantively changed? The only thing I can recall was to-go liquor sales with takeout - which I strongly suspect is not a big mover of change here.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    In New York, bars are able to sell booze for off premises consumption. Delivery of packaged liquor also became more available. It facilitates alot of work day drinking and bad outcomes for people with problems.
    - Aloha 3y ago
      I think its worth studying - but I suspect that's nipping around the edges again - if you're dying of alcohol related illnesses, its from buying sizable quantities of booze at the place that sells booze - not a beer with lunch.
DinaCoder99 3y ago
? Really? Neuroticism about health is one of the most common vectors for modern secular americans to moralize at all. Just look how worked up people get about obesity and smoking, both of which are very high risk factors for (among many other health risks) cancer. Alcohol is actually uniquely celebrated by people who are otherwise very concerned about health from my perspective.

ta2234234242 3y ago

This isn't the place for an academic forum. Your audience isn't here. Also, he's not your monkey.

EForEndeavour 3y ago
OP was the one to mention scientific research, not me. They effectively wrote "science? Policy? Ha! Prohibition was bad." Am I wrong to want to continue the discussion?

leetcrew 3y ago

talking past each other... I don't think anyone here seriously doubts whether alcohol consumption carries health risks or whether increasing excise tax decreases consumption (although they might quibble on the degree for each). the question is more around how much the government should intervene to limit poor personal choices. there aren't enough peer reviewed studies in the world to answer that.

vintermann 3y ago
Or whether it's right to see it as just a "personal choice". How we should view alcohol (and alcohol profits) is a choice we take together as a society, whether through institutions or not.