4 ms·

Can’t recommend enough Zulip. First-class topics, tools for organizing messages between streams & topics, open-source self-hostable, no engagement of ML out of

Can’t recommend enough Zulip. First-class topics, tools for organizing messages between streams & topics, open-source self-hostable, no engagement of ML out of the box (but probably possible thanks to Python plugin support), Vim-like keyboard shortcuts.

kikki 3y ago
I was about to say the same thing - I use Zulip at current employment - and after you get used to it it’s pretty great software that already solves all the problems struct aims to (without the AI nonsense)
- mrjn 3y ago
  Founder of Struct here. I looked at Zulip before starting Struct. And I'm sorry -- I don't think it's the same. Threads in Zulip are really sub-channels, and the idea of a unified feed like "All Threads" doesn't exist -- at least, that was my perception of Zulip. And just looking at the site right now, it feels the same as before. I could be wrong. Struct is different. It's a reimagination of what a chat platform would look like if you were to completely give up the idea of chats in a serial log of channels (IRC, Slack, Discord), and embrace threads and feeds whole-heartedly. When everything is a thread, the platform can work remarkably well for users.
  - smt88 3y ago
    > unified feed like "All Threads" I don't understand why I'd need or want this. I saw it in the video and was horrified. Multiple feeds updating as I'm watching them is just too much going on. When I'm chatting, I don't want to pay attention to 10 different things at once. I'm most productive when I am working on one task (with a single topic), which may require me to refer back to Slack periodically. Struct looks like it has two differentiating features: 1) it surfaces irrelevant distractions in the All Threads channel, and 2) it creates the tl;dr summary. The former seems actively harmful to productivity, and the latter seems like it could be useful.
    - mrjn 3y ago
      You could create a focused custom feed. For example, I have one for "tasks assigned to me". That's what I set to when I'm focused working. That's the beauty right -- you can control and filter what you see. As opposed to channel based interactions, where your boundaries are set in stone on channel creation.
      - smt88 3y ago
        But I don't currently use Slack as a task manager and don't want an unstructured task manager with no due dates or tags.
        mrjn 3y ago
        Yup. That's the point I'm making. Slack is used as ephemeral messaging system, a knowledge void. Struct aims to proves that more is possible.
        smt88 3y ago
        Gmail threads can also be task managers. That doesn't mean they're the right UI for it.
  - strogonoff 3y ago
    > the idea of a unified feed like "All Threads" doesn't exist I believe it does. You get a feed of all messages; and still organized by a topic, quite conveniently. I don’t use it, though, since from anywhere in GUI I can immediately jump to the next unread message, irregardless of topic or stream, simply by pressing “n” on keyboard (preceded by Esc if I happened to be typing; my draft is saved reliably).
    - tabbott 3y ago
      Indeed, Zulip has several views along the lines of "All threads", designed for different use cases and user preferences: - https://zulip.com/help/inbox https://zulip.com/help/inbox - https://zulip.com/help/recent-conversations https://zulip.com/help/recent-conversations - https://zulip.com/help/all-messages https://zulip.com/help/all-messages
iuffxguy 3y ago
Looks cool, but unfortunately another company that treats single sign-on as a luxury feature, not a core security requirement by jacking the price way up to get SAML support. Companies really need to stop doing this.
- JoshTriplett 3y ago
  Single-sign-on is a large and painful feature to develop, that most people don't need, and that the companies that need it are willing to pay for. It's the perfect candidate for a higher-tier pricing structure. This makes much more sense than tiering on a feature that everyone needs.
  - Solvency 3y ago
    SSO in 2017? Sure. In 2024? No way.
  - ckok 3y ago
    Sso should be the default really. And as a starting point every language has openid connect implemented. Yes it needs work but surely better than the average password reuse? For large and small companies surely the best way to maintain their users
- mutant 3y ago
  Add this to sso.tax
- strogonoff 3y ago
  I see it as an open-source product that you are free to run in whatever fashion you like, behind SSO or not. For a place for contributors to chat about an open-source project, for example, it’s hard to see how SSO is a must. Demanding SSO from Zulip would be like demanding SSO from self-hostable Discourse, Jitsi, etc.

kikki 3y ago

I was about to say the same thing - I use Zulip at current employment - and after you get used to it it’s pretty great software that already solves all the problems struct aims to (without the AI nonsense)

mrjn 3y ago
Founder of Struct here. I looked at Zulip before starting Struct. And I'm sorry -- I don't think it's the same. Threads in Zulip are really sub-channels, and the idea of a unified feed like "All Threads" doesn't exist -- at least, that was my perception of Zulip. And just looking at the site right now, it feels the same as before. I could be wrong. Struct is different. It's a reimagination of what a chat platform would look like if you were to completely give up the idea of chats in a serial log of channels (IRC, Slack, Discord), and embrace threads and feeds whole-heartedly. When everything is a thread, the platform can work remarkably well for users.
- smt88 3y ago
  > unified feed like "All Threads" I don't understand why I'd need or want this. I saw it in the video and was horrified. Multiple feeds updating as I'm watching them is just too much going on. When I'm chatting, I don't want to pay attention to 10 different things at once. I'm most productive when I am working on one task (with a single topic), which may require me to refer back to Slack periodically. Struct looks like it has two differentiating features: 1) it surfaces irrelevant distractions in the All Threads channel, and 2) it creates the tl;dr summary. The former seems actively harmful to productivity, and the latter seems like it could be useful.
  - mrjn 3y ago
    You could create a focused custom feed. For example, I have one for "tasks assigned to me". That's what I set to when I'm focused working. That's the beauty right -- you can control and filter what you see. As opposed to channel based interactions, where your boundaries are set in stone on channel creation.
    - smt88 3y ago
      But I don't currently use Slack as a task manager and don't want an unstructured task manager with no due dates or tags.
      - mrjn 3y ago
        Yup. That's the point I'm making. Slack is used as ephemeral messaging system, a knowledge void. Struct aims to proves that more is possible.
        smt88 3y ago
        Gmail threads can also be task managers. That doesn't mean they're the right UI for it.
- strogonoff 3y ago
  > the idea of a unified feed like "All Threads" doesn't exist I believe it does. You get a feed of all messages; and still organized by a topic, quite conveniently. I don’t use it, though, since from anywhere in GUI I can immediately jump to the next unread message, irregardless of topic or stream, simply by pressing “n” on keyboard (preceded by Esc if I happened to be typing; my draft is saved reliably).
  - tabbott 3y ago
    Indeed, Zulip has several views along the lines of "All threads", designed for different use cases and user preferences: - https://zulip.com/help/inbox https://zulip.com/help/inbox - https://zulip.com/help/recent-conversations https://zulip.com/help/recent-conversations - https://zulip.com/help/all-messages https://zulip.com/help/all-messages

iuffxguy 3y ago

Looks cool, but unfortunately another company that treats single sign-on as a luxury feature, not a core security requirement by jacking the price way up to get SAML support. Companies really need to stop doing this.

JoshTriplett 3y ago
Single-sign-on is a large and painful feature to develop, that most people don't need, and that the companies that need it are willing to pay for. It's the perfect candidate for a higher-tier pricing structure. This makes much more sense than tiering on a feature that everyone needs.
- Solvency 3y ago
  SSO in 2017? Sure. In 2024? No way.
- ckok 3y ago
  Sso should be the default really. And as a starting point every language has openid connect implemented. Yes it needs work but surely better than the average password reuse? For large and small companies surely the best way to maintain their users
mutant 3y ago
Add this to sso.tax
strogonoff 3y ago
I see it as an open-source product that you are free to run in whatever fashion you like, behind SSO or not. For a place for contributors to chat about an open-source project, for example, it’s hard to see how SSO is a must. Demanding SSO from Zulip would be like demanding SSO from self-hostable Discourse, Jitsi, etc.