4 ms·

The fact that Anglophone countries don't have language regulator bodies id mind-boggling. Basically schools marking down your work for mistakes can't refer to

The fact that Anglophone countries don't have language regulator bodies id mind-boggling. Basically schools marking down your work for mistakes can't refer to anything as the source of truth other than "this private entity, sometimes in a foreign country, published a book that says so" or just "it's common knowledge".

progman32 3y ago
On the other hand I'm glad my language isn't subject to central control.
mr_toad 3y ago
No bureaucracy would be able to keep up with the hundreds of new words that get added every year.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Somehow other languages manage. There's also quite some benefit for a org with official capacity to declare, against the wishes of some individuals, that say "santorum", "bromance" or "trumpgret" are not in fact English words.
  - mr_toad 3y ago
    What happens when the US and UK disagree? Not to mention the other ~80 countries that use it). They can’t even agree on spelling.
    - occamrazor 3y ago
      For German there is an international body. Regional language differences are officially acknowledged. For example, Swiss High German has no Esszet and in Austria January is spelled "Jenner" instead of "Januar".
      - Scharkenberg 3y ago
        Eszett, Jänner
  - spiesd 3y ago
    Genuinely curious: how do other languages manage? Surely societies adopt words, idioms, shorthand phrases that haven't (yet) been officially sanctioned? There's plenty professional jargon that, while not "proper" English, is understood within certain contexts. There are also, to my old ears' chagrin, plenty of teenage neologisms that come into common usage, either through popularity or attrition. Do other languages remain static? What happens when actually new things happen? Does "CD-ROM" just get integrated in whole? Translated? Rejected? While I find many "new" english words unacceptable for my use, I wouldn't personally declare them "not English words". Moreover, if there were an authority over authentic english (especially American english) word existence and usage, I get the feeling that most would laugh said authority out of the room.
    - jojobas 3y ago
      If the words/grammar stick well enough, the governing bodies let them in. Until then, use them in an essay at school and you'll lose marks.
    - berkes 3y ago
      Some languages, like Afrikaans, won't loan words, and make their own up. Where in Dutch we use computer, computernetwerk or lift, in Afrikaans it is rekenaar, rekenaarstelsel and hijsbakkie. And in many languages, most famous in Dutch and German, one can make up words by putting other words together. Those aren't official untill some officials put it in some list. But that way, we can have koekiewet or Wutbürgerin or Nachtshoppen.
- b3orn 3y ago
  Keeping up with words is the job of dictionaries (pretty sure those exist for English), not of language regulation. For German language regulation means stuff like you're allowed to write Foto instead of Photo, but always Physik and never Fysik, or if you combine words like Schiff and Fahrt into Schifffahrt should it be written with two or three f, rules on when to use ß instead of ss and so on.
samatman 3y ago
You don't understand us at all.
krick 3y ago
Countries that do have such "regulators", as you call them, aren't that much different from that, though. Most of the work these bodies do is just more professional approach to what you described. It's just observing how language changes and keeping a written record of it. Which is surely more comforting for a school teacher, I agree, but, damn, who cares. It really seems like a non-issue to me. And, I suspect, most school teachers feel like they have more important things in life to do, than keeping track of linguists keeping track of the language, even if it's implied that it's their job. Sure, I know some countries where these "regulators" perceive themselves as having an important political function: keeping (mostly dying) language "pure". But this really is pretty laughable, teenagers will still speak some kind of pidgin, borrowing half of vocabulary from some other language with larger (and more importantly, perceived as "cool") community. I've seen this happen a lot. Maybe this does slow down language transformation to some extent, but I really doubt it is significant on the historic scale. In fact, I strongly suspect that English is changing much slower today, just because of how much content there is in it. Other languages borrow more from English, than English does from other languages today.
cvoss 3y ago
The lack of a central authority over English in the United States, at least, is related to a couple things. First, English is not the official language of the country. No language is. It's just a happenstance of our history that our lingua franca is English. Second, Americans, I think, would be really uncomfortable with the idea of a government entity controlling how people are supposed to speak and write. That lives too close to controlling what we say and think. Not that such an entity necessarily leads to 1984-style propaganda and thought-control, but we take First Amendment concerns very seriously here. Lastly, if you attend a specific school, you are subscribing to the instruction of that curriculum and those teachers. To have all students everywhere subscribe to the same authority of what they should know and how they should think... that can be pretty scary for an American.
- jojobas 3y ago
  > you are subscribing to the instruction of that curriculum and those teachers If this were true, there would have been no Scopes Monkey Trial. Neither is a school free to teach you that 2+2=5 or that pi is 3.2, even in Indiana. How's that for 1st amendment?
  - samatman 3y ago
    You're really just flailing about hoping something will land. It's amusing to watch, but that's all. If you'd like to get as good as you're giving, how about you tell us what country you're from, so we can provide an opinion about choice episodes in its history in return? Fair is fair, no?
simpletone 3y ago
> The fact that Anglophone countries don't have language regulator bodies id mind-boggling. Sure we do. It's the people, culture, elites, etc. It's survival of the fittest. > Basically schools marking down your work for mistakes can't refer to anything as the source of truth other than "this private entity, sometimes in a foreign country, published a book that says so" or just "it's common knowledge". You can't be serious. Don't want to get philosophical, but what is the source of 'truth'? What should really be mindboggling to you is that more than 80% of the top 100 universities in the world are in the US alone. The majority of the rest are in UK, canada, etc. Almost all science, business, diplomacy, etc is done in the english language. Now that is mindboggling.

progman32 3y ago

On the other hand I'm glad my language isn't subject to central control.

mr_toad 3y ago

No bureaucracy would be able to keep up with the hundreds of new words that get added every year.

jojobas 3y ago
Somehow other languages manage. There's also quite some benefit for a org with official capacity to declare, against the wishes of some individuals, that say "santorum", "bromance" or "trumpgret" are not in fact English words.
- mr_toad 3y ago
  What happens when the US and UK disagree? Not to mention the other ~80 countries that use it). They can’t even agree on spelling.
  - occamrazor 3y ago
    For German there is an international body. Regional language differences are officially acknowledged. For example, Swiss High German has no Esszet and in Austria January is spelled "Jenner" instead of "Januar".
    - Scharkenberg 3y ago
      Eszett, Jänner
- spiesd 3y ago
  Genuinely curious: how do other languages manage? Surely societies adopt words, idioms, shorthand phrases that haven't (yet) been officially sanctioned? There's plenty professional jargon that, while not "proper" English, is understood within certain contexts. There are also, to my old ears' chagrin, plenty of teenage neologisms that come into common usage, either through popularity or attrition. Do other languages remain static? What happens when actually new things happen? Does "CD-ROM" just get integrated in whole? Translated? Rejected? While I find many "new" english words unacceptable for my use, I wouldn't personally declare them "not English words". Moreover, if there were an authority over authentic english (especially American english) word existence and usage, I get the feeling that most would laugh said authority out of the room.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    If the words/grammar stick well enough, the governing bodies let them in. Until then, use them in an essay at school and you'll lose marks.
  - berkes 3y ago
    Some languages, like Afrikaans, won't loan words, and make their own up. Where in Dutch we use computer, computernetwerk or lift, in Afrikaans it is rekenaar, rekenaarstelsel and hijsbakkie. And in many languages, most famous in Dutch and German, one can make up words by putting other words together. Those aren't official untill some officials put it in some list. But that way, we can have koekiewet or Wutbürgerin or Nachtshoppen.
b3orn 3y ago
Keeping up with words is the job of dictionaries (pretty sure those exist for English), not of language regulation. For German language regulation means stuff like you're allowed to write Foto instead of Photo, but always Physik and never Fysik, or if you combine words like Schiff and Fahrt into Schifffahrt should it be written with two or three f, rules on when to use ß instead of ss and so on.

samatman 3y ago

You don't understand us at all.

krick 3y ago

Countries that do have such "regulators", as you call them, aren't that much different from that, though. Most of the work these bodies do is just more professional approach to what you described. It's just observing how language changes and keeping a written record of it. Which is surely more comforting for a school teacher, I agree, but, damn, who cares. It really seems like a non-issue to me. And, I suspect, most school teachers feel like they have more important things in life to do, than keeping track of linguists keeping track of the language, even if it's implied that it's their job. Sure, I know some countries where these "regulators" perceive themselves as having an important political function: keeping (mostly dying) language "pure". But this really is pretty laughable, teenagers will still speak some kind of pidgin, borrowing half of vocabulary from some other language with larger (and more importantly, perceived as "cool") community. I've seen this happen a lot. Maybe this does slow down language transformation to some extent, but I really doubt it is significant on the historic scale. In fact, I strongly suspect that English is changing much slower today, just because of how much content there is in it. Other languages borrow more from English, than English does from other languages today.

cvoss 3y ago

The lack of a central authority over English in the United States, at least, is related to a couple things. First, English is not the official language of the country. No language is. It's just a happenstance of our history that our lingua franca is English. Second, Americans, I think, would be really uncomfortable with the idea of a government entity controlling how people are supposed to speak and write. That lives too close to controlling what we say and think. Not that such an entity necessarily leads to 1984-style propaganda and thought-control, but we take First Amendment concerns very seriously here. Lastly, if you attend a specific school, you are subscribing to the instruction of that curriculum and those teachers. To have all students everywhere subscribe to the same authority of what they should know and how they should think... that can be pretty scary for an American.

jojobas 3y ago
> you are subscribing to the instruction of that curriculum and those teachers If this were true, there would have been no Scopes Monkey Trial. Neither is a school free to teach you that 2+2=5 or that pi is 3.2, even in Indiana. How's that for 1st amendment?
- samatman 3y ago
  You're really just flailing about hoping something will land. It's amusing to watch, but that's all. If you'd like to get as good as you're giving, how about you tell us what country you're from, so we can provide an opinion about choice episodes in its history in return? Fair is fair, no?

simpletone 3y ago

> The fact that Anglophone countries don't have language regulator bodies id mind-boggling. Sure we do. It's the people, culture, elites, etc. It's survival of the fittest. > Basically schools marking down your work for mistakes can't refer to anything as the source of truth other than "this private entity, sometimes in a foreign country, published a book that says so" or just "it's common knowledge". You can't be serious. Don't want to get philosophical, but what is the source of 'truth'? What should really be mindboggling to you is that more than 80% of the top 100 universities in the world are in the US alone. The majority of the rest are in UK, canada, etc. Almost all science, business, diplomacy, etc is done in the english language. Now that is mindboggling.