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Am I factually wrong to say that the thread was silently disappeared from the front page? The discussion in this thread is about HN error messages and downtime

Am I factually wrong to say that the thread was silently disappeared from the front page? The discussion in this thread is about HN error messages and downtime. I theorized that threads that trigger the flame war thing get disappeared and posters get a timeout. How is this "off-topic meta drama"? It is the very topic of this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39527188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39527188 (Google's Gemini Headaches Spur $90B Selloff) <- "Yes, you are crazy." I shouldn't have taken the bait, true. I'd definitely like your guidance about how acceptable you find the post I was replying to that opened with "am I crazy". If I was a mod I'd be critical of it as a very low quality one to say the least specifically with regards to the way it is written and argued, rather than the position taken. Is this not a fair assessment? It passes your threshold for good quality comments? In that very thread there are countless people who call anybody critical of Google/DEI paranoid and crazy. Why is this acceptable? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39509831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39509831 (Losing Trust in Google) - "In what universe is this a strong point." <- It simply wasn't a strong point, it was another low quality comment written in bad faith. Why is calling it out the only thing deserving of a note, it is worse somehow? Should have I used some other verbiage? Why is the comment I am replying to acceptable? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39509831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39509831 (Losing Trust in Google) - "He is a loser because he doesn't think like you?" A poster didn't like that thread critical of Google/DEI existing. It garnered plenty of comments and upvotes finding it interesting however. This person wrote "It's paranoia, but it's also clickbait. We shouldn't give these losers a platform." <- This has no warning and no flag. I'd definitely like your guidance about how acceptable you find that post. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39509831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39509831 - (German Bundestag Passes Cannabis Legalization) "You're about to be downvoted and flagged by people who have never been to Berlin." Subsequently the user got downvoted and flagged. An unpleasant exchange ensued between him and one of his censors who immediately called him a racist and argued in bad faith. I did not participate in any of that. I don't quite understand how calling people racist like that is not a clear violation of site guidelines. I think you see the theme here but perhaps not. What am I incorrect about? Am I completely and totally off base in your opinion? I am pointing out absolutely nothing legitimate?

dang 3y ago
I'm sure that you're asking all this sincerely, but I can't continue this sort of back-and-forth indefinitely. I don't mean to be dismissive - it's just that there are dozens of things clamoring for attention, and only a handful of us. Actually only one of us, since I'm the only mod who posts publicly right now. I can't descend into ever-finer levels of argument about this. I've done my best to explain to you how you've not been using the site as intended. At some point I have to stop and leave you (<-- I don't mean you personally—this situation comes up a lot) to digest that and figure out, with the help of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, what to do differently. If you sincerely want to do that, it won't be hard.
- verticalscaler 3y ago
  > I've done my best to explain to you how you've not been using the site as intended And completely side stepped all other questions, not about myself. There's no argument to be had you can simply clarify these issues from your perspective for the benefit of all instead of tip toeing around them. I don't think you are dismissive, it does appear you are avoidant, to a growing number of users. That is also said sincerely - I'm sure from your perspective you are trying your best and spread thin - but we can be sure with or without me the thorny DEI/NerfedLLM issue will only grow over time and the lack of clarity only creates more problems. Food for thought.
  - dang 3y ago
    I'll tell you what: if, out of all of the questions you feel I sidestepped, you'd like to choose one, I can try to answer it. What I can't do is keep going in a back-and-forth where each response guarantees an even more time-consuming rebuttal.
    - verticalscaler 3y ago
      Dang, very sincerely, I don't want an argument either. The through line is the following: There appears to be a cohort of posters who are heavily into the DEI philosophies for a plurality of reasons. This mirrors the goings on in various orgs and the rest of society. It is in full display on the recent Google/Gemini threads for example. Off the charts gaslighting, name calling, and brigadiering. It appears as if you turn a blind eye to it or they learned to walk a very fine line and stay within your guidelines (following the letters, not the spirit of). Imagine a certain type of bully in class who hits you and gets you into trouble with the teacher, plays innocent, and then mimes at you with a shit eating grin behind the teachers back as you are getting lectured. Are you stretched so thin that you perhaps missed the intensity of this growing phenomenon? I can understand that. If you can acknowledge that this is a real problem what is your attitude towards moderating it long term? Many feel unfairly reprimanded by you for calling it out. You need to be aware of this situation and we all need to be able to discuss it in the open without the threads getting disappeared. Otherwise tensions run high and you play whackamole with flustered posters and miss the forest for the trees.

dang 3y ago

I'm sure that you're asking all this sincerely, but I can't continue this sort of back-and-forth indefinitely. I don't mean to be dismissive - it's just that there are dozens of things clamoring for attention, and only a handful of us. Actually only one of us, since I'm the only mod who posts publicly right now. I can't descend into ever-finer levels of argument about this. I've done my best to explain to you how you've not been using the site as intended. At some point I have to stop and leave you (<-- I don't mean you personally—this situation comes up a lot) to digest that and figure out, with the help of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, what to do differently. If you sincerely want to do that, it won't be hard.

verticalscaler 3y ago
> I've done my best to explain to you how you've not been using the site as intended And completely side stepped all other questions, not about myself. There's no argument to be had you can simply clarify these issues from your perspective for the benefit of all instead of tip toeing around them. I don't think you are dismissive, it does appear you are avoidant, to a growing number of users. That is also said sincerely - I'm sure from your perspective you are trying your best and spread thin - but we can be sure with or without me the thorny DEI/NerfedLLM issue will only grow over time and the lack of clarity only creates more problems. Food for thought.
- dang 3y ago
  I'll tell you what: if, out of all of the questions you feel I sidestepped, you'd like to choose one, I can try to answer it. What I can't do is keep going in a back-and-forth where each response guarantees an even more time-consuming rebuttal.
  - verticalscaler 3y ago
    Dang, very sincerely, I don't want an argument either. The through line is the following: There appears to be a cohort of posters who are heavily into the DEI philosophies for a plurality of reasons. This mirrors the goings on in various orgs and the rest of society. It is in full display on the recent Google/Gemini threads for example. Off the charts gaslighting, name calling, and brigadiering. It appears as if you turn a blind eye to it or they learned to walk a very fine line and stay within your guidelines (following the letters, not the spirit of). Imagine a certain type of bully in class who hits you and gets you into trouble with the teacher, plays innocent, and then mimes at you with a shit eating grin behind the teachers back as you are getting lectured. Are you stretched so thin that you perhaps missed the intensity of this growing phenomenon? I can understand that. If you can acknowledge that this is a real problem what is your attitude towards moderating it long term? Many feel unfairly reprimanded by you for calling it out. You need to be aware of this situation and we all need to be able to discuss it in the open without the threads getting disappeared. Otherwise tensions run high and you play whackamole with flustered posters and miss the forest for the trees.