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On the one hand I imagine that Russian and Arabic viewers would find inclusions from their languages very distracting, but then the story is so clearly about Am

On the one hand I imagine that Russian and Arabic viewers would find inclusions from their languages very distracting, but then the story is so clearly about Americans and Russians squabbling over colonized Arabic territory, and all of them getting screwed over by ‘larger forces’, that I don’t think changing the language makes a real difference.

empath-nirvana 3y ago
A lot of the story and setting is taken almost _word for word_ from Sabres of Paradise, which takes place in the Caucuses, before the soviet union existed and before America got involved in the middle east. https://arnoldkhan.medium.com/how-the-sabre-of-paradise-inspired-dune-f2b892c4869e https://arnoldkhan.medium.com/how-the-sabre-of-paradise-insp...
- throw4847285 3y ago
  I wonder if he also read Hadji Murat by Tolstoy. It's about the same historical incidents, but fictionalized.
mr_toad 3y ago
The Harkonnen are stereotypical medieval despots, almost cartoonishly so.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> On the one hand I imagine that Russian and Arabic viewers would find inclusions from their languages very distracting, but then the story is so clearly about Americans and Russians squabbling over colonized Arabic territory It isn't, though between the time it was conceived and written and when it became popular things the world situation had evolved so that became a popular interpretation.
int_19h 3y ago
Anecdotally I've seen quite a few Muslim sci-fi fans say that they enjoyed all the references to their culture in Dune. You might also find this interesting: https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-reading-of-appendix-ii-the-religion-of-dune/ https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-readin... Speaking as a Russian, the only real reference to Russian specifically in the books is Vladimir Harkonnen's first name, which was amusing when it first came up, but it doesn't really seem to play any specific role (and ofc his last name is Finnish, so, like most other things in this universe, if it's a cultural reference, it's very syncretic). There is another reference to a broader Slavic culture in one of the Fremen chants in the first book, though: ima trava okolo i korenja okolo This does not directly correspond to any existing Slavic language, but it is very recognizable to most speakers of such - "trava" is grass, "korenja" (pronounced as "korenya") are "roots", and "okolo" literally means "around" (from "kolo", circle), and in some Slavic languages became more generic "nearby". So the snippet should really translate as "grass is around/near, and roots are around/near", but Herbert translates it as "these are the grasses and these are the roots". Then again, many clearly Arabic phrases also have meanings that are similar but not exactly the same as what they really mean, and the book sort of implies that it's just the result of language evolution over time. But it is rather interesting that Fremen of all people apparently have some Slavic language as part of its history. Given that the snippet most closely resembles South Slavic languages, it is likely a reference to Bosniaks specifically, but it's never really elaborated further.

empath-nirvana 3y ago

A lot of the story and setting is taken almost _word for word_ from Sabres of Paradise, which takes place in the Caucuses, before the soviet union existed and before America got involved in the middle east. https://arnoldkhan.medium.com/how-the-sabre-of-paradise-inspired-dune-f2b892c4869e https://arnoldkhan.medium.com/how-the-sabre-of-paradise-insp...

throw4847285 3y ago
I wonder if he also read Hadji Murat by Tolstoy. It's about the same historical incidents, but fictionalized.

mr_toad 3y ago

The Harkonnen are stereotypical medieval despots, almost cartoonishly so.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> On the one hand I imagine that Russian and Arabic viewers would find inclusions from their languages very distracting, but then the story is so clearly about Americans and Russians squabbling over colonized Arabic territory It isn't, though between the time it was conceived and written and when it became popular things the world situation had evolved so that became a popular interpretation.

int_19h 3y ago

Anecdotally I've seen quite a few Muslim sci-fi fans say that they enjoyed all the references to their culture in Dune. You might also find this interesting: https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-reading-of-appendix-ii-the-religion-of-dune/ https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-readin... Speaking as a Russian, the only real reference to Russian specifically in the books is Vladimir Harkonnen's first name, which was amusing when it first came up, but it doesn't really seem to play any specific role (and ofc his last name is Finnish, so, like most other things in this universe, if it's a cultural reference, it's very syncretic). There is another reference to a broader Slavic culture in one of the Fremen chants in the first book, though: ima trava okolo i korenja okolo This does not directly correspond to any existing Slavic language, but it is very recognizable to most speakers of such - "trava" is grass, "korenja" (pronounced as "korenya") are "roots", and "okolo" literally means "around" (from "kolo", circle), and in some Slavic languages became more generic "nearby". So the snippet should really translate as "grass is around/near, and roots are around/near", but Herbert translates it as "these are the grasses and these are the roots". Then again, many clearly Arabic phrases also have meanings that are similar but not exactly the same as what they really mean, and the book sort of implies that it's just the result of language evolution over time. But it is rather interesting that Fremen of all people apparently have some Slavic language as part of its history. Given that the snippet most closely resembles South Slavic languages, it is likely a reference to Bosniaks specifically, but it's never really elaborated further.