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Wayland feels like a different operating system to Linux. Linuw? I can't do this in linuw: https://twitter.com/xundecidability/status/1763219017160867840 https

Wayland feels like a different operating system to Linux. Linuw? I can't do this in linuw: https://twitter.com/xundecidability/status/1763219017160867840 https://twitter.com/xundecidability/status/17632190171608678...

SahAssar 3y ago
X11 was neither developed for or is a part of linux. Like I get the folks who consider the GNU userland tools to be a part of the "linux"-and-stuff-we-expect-to-be-bundled, but X11 is pretty separate. Either way screen recording is working in all major wayland WMs, so you can do that in "linuw" (or whatever you choose to call it)
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  Yeah, X11 really isn't a Linux thing at all; I think the association is just that Linux distros are the current hacker/poweruser OS of choice, for a lot of reasons including tools that let people do cool/powerful things with the system, and X11 is one of those tools (or the backing framework for them, at least). I don't know what screen recording has to do with anything? Like, yes Wayland also makes the computer vision half of that example harder (you can do it in all major compositors, but details vary and GNOME is outright hostile to automating it) but Wayland doesn't have an answer to xdotool which is arguably the bigger component. (I am aware of tools like ydotool and such, but AFAIK they're all significantly weaker; they can blindly inject emulated key/mouse events, but not, say, target specific windows)
  - SahAssar 3y ago
    Ah, I misunderstood which part was a problem on wayland. I haven't used either xdotool or ydotool much, and for automating stuff that is in a browser I have used the browser APIs instead.
- kelnos 3y ago
  On the flip side, though, it does seem that Wayland has been developed with a sort of "Linux first" attitude. Not that it's impossible to run on other OSes, but there are bits and bobs here and there that show the Linux bias.
- stonogo 3y ago
  X11 was not initially developed for linux, but every major X11 platform -- Linux, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and FreeBSD -- uses Linux's graphics stack to display X11 at this point. It's been that way since the KMS/DRM introduction. I would say that X11 is not separate at all, today, regardless of its origins.

SahAssar 3y ago

X11 was neither developed for or is a part of linux. Like I get the folks who consider the GNU userland tools to be a part of the "linux"-and-stuff-we-expect-to-be-bundled, but X11 is pretty separate. Either way screen recording is working in all major wayland WMs, so you can do that in "linuw" (or whatever you choose to call it)

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
Yeah, X11 really isn't a Linux thing at all; I think the association is just that Linux distros are the current hacker/poweruser OS of choice, for a lot of reasons including tools that let people do cool/powerful things with the system, and X11 is one of those tools (or the backing framework for them, at least). I don't know what screen recording has to do with anything? Like, yes Wayland also makes the computer vision half of that example harder (you can do it in all major compositors, but details vary and GNOME is outright hostile to automating it) but Wayland doesn't have an answer to xdotool which is arguably the bigger component. (I am aware of tools like ydotool and such, but AFAIK they're all significantly weaker; they can blindly inject emulated key/mouse events, but not, say, target specific windows)
- SahAssar 3y ago
  Ah, I misunderstood which part was a problem on wayland. I haven't used either xdotool or ydotool much, and for automating stuff that is in a browser I have used the browser APIs instead.
kelnos 3y ago
On the flip side, though, it does seem that Wayland has been developed with a sort of "Linux first" attitude. Not that it's impossible to run on other OSes, but there are bits and bobs here and there that show the Linux bias.
stonogo 3y ago
X11 was not initially developed for linux, but every major X11 platform -- Linux, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and FreeBSD -- uses Linux's graphics stack to display X11 at this point. It's been that way since the KMS/DRM introduction. I would say that X11 is not separate at all, today, regardless of its origins.