3 ms·

Is it? Atreides is not a made up word, it directly references the descendants of Atreus from the greek myths -- Agamemnon himself (well, his voice) makes an app

Is it? Atreides is not a made up word, it directly references the descendants of Atreus from the greek myths -- Agamemnon himself (well, his voice) makes an appearance! "Reverend mother" is a (catholic) religious term. So these particular terms survived, but jihad didn't? Arabic, like op said, didn't? OP made a good point.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
I don't know that I made a good point, I figured just sort of an obvious point that the Arabic wouldn't have lasted but all these other things would have explanation doesn't pass the smell test. Arabic is problematic for various reasons so they cut it and then figured they also needed to make up a bunch of bull about cutting it, companies got to spin their investment but it devalues the art of the whole to me. If they had said hey it's problematic for lots of reasons so we cut it, sorry. I'd be like yeah ok. But the explanation is just not believable coming from a language designer of some intelligence who would have had the same thought I did only probably much stronger, quicker, and deeper. To paraphrase - it's difficult to get a man to make a truthful argument when the big bucks depends on him lying - but he still knows he's lying for pay.
- kragen 3y ago
  as the article points out, in the book as written, paul (who is named 'paul', a roman family name that became popular with the spread of christianity because of the apostle of that name) and jessica (who is named 'jessica', from shakespeare's 'the merchant of venice') are speaking 20th-century american english. (i assume this is also the case in villeneuve's film, which i haven't seen.) this is clearly implausible; we can explain it as an instance of the common practice of translating dialogues and sometimes even people's names into the language you're telling a story in but if the entire language they're speaking is rendered in translation, why not 'atreides' and 'duncan idaho'?
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    I guess I'm a great believer in the original intention of the author being important, and thus am apt to be overly annoyed at these kinds of things, so I guess you might make that assumption from just the text, however the common tropes in genre do not do this kind of thing, in Science Fiction many people can have non English names and those are generally provided, and in fact in the book there are numerous names that are not English or any recognizable language, so all that together makes it seem like we are doing way too much work to explain away a messy narrative decision - if there is an Occam's razor for fiction, which I shall suppose there is having conceived of it, it seems much more reasonable to suppose Paul is named Paul Atreides, and Duncan Idaho is named Duncan Idaho.
- nwhnwh 3y ago
  > I figured just sort of an obvious point that the Arabic wouldn't have lasted... Why?
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    Quote the whole thing, your cherry-picked quote removes a lot of context and makes your question bizarre, at best, and disingenuous at worst. It's pretty clear bryanrasmussen is not saying Arabic wouldn't have lasted, but that the rationalization given for erasing Arabic doesn't hold up given the rest of the context. > I figured just sort of an obvious point that the Arabic wouldn't have lasted but all these other things would have explanation doesn't pass the smell test. Since (per your other comment) English isn't your native language, a rephrasing: >> It doesn't pass the smell test to say that Arabic wouldn't have lasted but all these other things would have. If that's still not clear to you, there's not much helping you.
nwhnwh 3y ago
We don't speak the same language... I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Rephrase it in a clear way, please.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

I don't know that I made a good point, I figured just sort of an obvious point that the Arabic wouldn't have lasted but all these other things would have explanation doesn't pass the smell test. Arabic is problematic for various reasons so they cut it and then figured they also needed to make up a bunch of bull about cutting it, companies got to spin their investment but it devalues the art of the whole to me. If they had said hey it's problematic for lots of reasons so we cut it, sorry. I'd be like yeah ok. But the explanation is just not believable coming from a language designer of some intelligence who would have had the same thought I did only probably much stronger, quicker, and deeper. To paraphrase - it's difficult to get a man to make a truthful argument when the big bucks depends on him lying - but he still knows he's lying for pay.

kragen 3y ago
as the article points out, in the book as written, paul (who is named 'paul', a roman family name that became popular with the spread of christianity because of the apostle of that name) and jessica (who is named 'jessica', from shakespeare's 'the merchant of venice') are speaking 20th-century american english. (i assume this is also the case in villeneuve's film, which i haven't seen.) this is clearly implausible; we can explain it as an instance of the common practice of translating dialogues and sometimes even people's names into the language you're telling a story in but if the entire language they're speaking is rendered in translation, why not 'atreides' and 'duncan idaho'?
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  I guess I'm a great believer in the original intention of the author being important, and thus am apt to be overly annoyed at these kinds of things, so I guess you might make that assumption from just the text, however the common tropes in genre do not do this kind of thing, in Science Fiction many people can have non English names and those are generally provided, and in fact in the book there are numerous names that are not English or any recognizable language, so all that together makes it seem like we are doing way too much work to explain away a messy narrative decision - if there is an Occam's razor for fiction, which I shall suppose there is having conceived of it, it seems much more reasonable to suppose Paul is named Paul Atreides, and Duncan Idaho is named Duncan Idaho.
nwhnwh 3y ago
> I figured just sort of an obvious point that the Arabic wouldn't have lasted... Why?
- Jtsummers 3y ago
  Quote the whole thing, your cherry-picked quote removes a lot of context and makes your question bizarre, at best, and disingenuous at worst. It's pretty clear bryanrasmussen is not saying Arabic wouldn't have lasted, but that the rationalization given for erasing Arabic doesn't hold up given the rest of the context. > I figured just sort of an obvious point that the Arabic wouldn't have lasted but all these other things would have explanation doesn't pass the smell test. Since (per your other comment) English isn't your native language, a rephrasing: >> It doesn't pass the smell test to say that Arabic wouldn't have lasted but all these other things would have. If that's still not clear to you, there's not much helping you.

nwhnwh 3y ago

We don't speak the same language... I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Rephrase it in a clear way, please.