> Why the obsession with avoiding "programming the machine"? I think that programmers who think that ORMs improve upon SQL are making the same mistake that I i

> Why the obsession with avoiding "programming the machine"? I think that programmers who think that ORMs improve upon SQL are making the same mistake that I infer from this quote of yours. Of the two approaches, SQL is the high-level, abstract DSL for doing the business logic you want, and ORMs are the low-level, implementation-specific technologies which you can push around with loops and conditionals. People who choose ORMs probably do so because they perceive them to be the higher-level abstractions. But that's why I choose SQL.