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Incidentally: accused of harassment just for getting in an elevator with someone of the opposite sex? Huh? He's referring to an incident where a conference spe

by parfe 14y ago

Incidentally: accused of harassment just for getting in an elevator with someone of the opposite sex? Huh? He's referring to an incident where a conference speaker had drinks in the hotel bar with other attendees and at 4am said she was tired and left to go to her room. A man left the bar and followed her into the elevator and only after being secluded asked to continue talking with her in his room. edit: Found the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uKHwduG1Frk#t=241s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v... Her point was that his approach made her uncomfortable. He had the opportunity to speak to her in a public place in the bar but chose an elevator. I think he chose the elevator because it was less stressful to approach a stranger with no one to witness a probable rejection. Of course it made it more stressful for her to turn down a stranger while trapped alone with him. She received some serious backlash from men who think it was perfectly acceptable to tail a woman into an elevator to engage them in conversion while they are trapped with you, and she would be completely wrong for feeling threatened. Coincidentally it's the same type of guy who would have told her it was her fault for getting attacked if the man had raped her. Edit: Also, I can't believe HN is supporting tomjen3's comment. It's borderline parody, but not.

tomjen3 14y ago
The reason there was a huge shitstorm over it was that all he did was to ask -- he didn't do anything else. And yeah he asked her out in a situation where he wouldn't be humiliated if she turned him down. And jumping from the conclusion that I support rapists because I think it is okay for men to choose a place that is reasonably private to ask females out -- well I just can't see a productive debate springing from that, so I will refrain from commenting it.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Do we really have to have a debate about "don't follow lone women into elevators at 4AM to ask them out at tech conferences"? I'm sorry, I don't think we seriously have to debate this.
chc 14y ago
> Coincidentally it's the same type of guy who would have told her it was her fault for getting attacked if the man had raped her. You're way over the line with that one. It's one thing for a man to think, "I don't owe it to women to walk on eggshells around them." That view might be a bit naive, but it is a very different and much less despicable thing than supporting rapists and blaming rape victims for what happened to them. I thought what he did was poorly considered, but he didn't show any ill intent, so it's very unfair to associate him with men who harm women. Why do I care about this? Because drawing that association actually plays into rapists' common delusion that trying to rape women is a normal and acceptable thing. It is important to draw the line between behavior that is merely inconsiderate and behavior that's actually evil, even if you dislike both.
- parfe 14y ago
  I agree with most of your comment, thank you. It was a good response to what I wrote. >so it's very unfair to associate him with men who harm women. I wasn't associating the person in the elevator with people who victim blame. I was speaking of people who responded in a backlash to her video describing the incident. Allow me to expand on that line you quoted to clarify. Let's take this comment, for instance: >The reason there was a huge shitstorm over it was that all he did was to ask -- he didn't do anything else. What he's doing here is invaliding her discomfort. He's implying she should have some way to detect a rapist and her danger-detection is faulty. She shouldn't have been uncomfortable because he didn't rape her. It only works in hindsight and it's "not" victim blaming only because she wasn't victimized. Claiming a person should know someone is not a rapist necessarily requires thinking a person can know someone is a rapist. edit: removed repetitive sentence for clarity.

by parfe 14y ago

tomjen3 14y ago

The reason there was a huge shitstorm over it was that all he did was to ask -- he didn't do anything else. And yeah he asked her out in a situation where he wouldn't be humiliated if she turned him down. And jumping from the conclusion that I support rapists because I think it is okay for men to choose a place that is reasonably private to ask females out -- well I just can't see a productive debate springing from that, so I will refrain from commenting it.

tptacek 14y ago
Do we really have to have a debate about "don't follow lone women into elevators at 4AM to ask them out at tech conferences"? I'm sorry, I don't think we seriously have to debate this.

chc 14y ago

> Coincidentally it's the same type of guy who would have told her it was her fault for getting attacked if the man had raped her. You're way over the line with that one. It's one thing for a man to think, "I don't owe it to women to walk on eggshells around them." That view might be a bit naive, but it is a very different and much less despicable thing than supporting rapists and blaming rape victims for what happened to them. I thought what he did was poorly considered, but he didn't show any ill intent, so it's very unfair to associate him with men who harm women. Why do I care about this? Because drawing that association actually plays into rapists' common delusion that trying to rape women is a normal and acceptable thing. It is important to draw the line between behavior that is merely inconsiderate and behavior that's actually evil, even if you dislike both.

parfe 14y ago
I agree with most of your comment, thank you. It was a good response to what I wrote. >so it's very unfair to associate him with men who harm women. I wasn't associating the person in the elevator with people who victim blame. I was speaking of people who responded in a backlash to her video describing the incident. Allow me to expand on that line you quoted to clarify. Let's take this comment, for instance: >The reason there was a huge shitstorm over it was that all he did was to ask -- he didn't do anything else. What he's doing here is invaliding her discomfort. He's implying she should have some way to detect a rapist and her danger-detection is faulty. She shouldn't have been uncomfortable because he didn't rape her. It only works in hindsight and it's "not" victim blaming only because she wasn't victimized. Claiming a person should know someone is not a rapist necessarily requires thinking a person can know someone is a rapist. edit: removed repetitive sentence for clarity.