3 ms·

The world has moved on from Jihad? What world are you living in?

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
The _word_ can't be used casually like that any more. The world has moved on from using the word casually as exotic unfamiliar flavour, without inviting unwelcome ignorant reflexive antagonism. For an example of that, I refer you to your own comment.
- samatman 3y ago
  The Fremen jihad isn't exotic unfamiliar flavor. It's jihad.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    Whoosh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinctio...
    - samatman 3y ago
      Are you a professional doofus, or is it more of a thing you do online for fun.
  - kybernetikos 3y ago
    I assumed he was talking about the Butlerian Jihad, which is an idea that feels particularly fresh and relevant today. "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind"
- omnibrain 3y ago
  I would not say that Jihad was used casually in Dune. But when you read only the first part it looks like the hero is promoting Jihad as something good. When the truth, considering all parts of this sentence, is way more complex if you read on and even reread it. I think the studio (execs) just were afraid of having a blockbuster with a hero that promotes Jihad.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    > I think the studio (execs) just were afraid of having a blockbuster with a hero that promotes Jihad. Agreed, they will use an different equivalent term such as "holy war" for the reasons given above. The meaning of that fictional cataclysm is not casual, but the word choice in Dune the 1965 novel, using an unfamiliar middle-eastern term for it, I think was. These are separate things, and I refer you again to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinctio...
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > I think the studio (execs) just were afraid of having a blockbuster with a hero that promotes Jihad. Dune has a hero? Paul is a hero?
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      Yes? In the first book, the Harkonnens and the Empire are cartoon character evil and Paul and the Atreides are cartoon character good guys. Things only get more complicated later in the story.
      - int_19h 3y ago
        Paul is already very uncomfortable with the role he has to play in the first book - first the whole part where he and his mother (ab)use a religious prophecy deliberately planted in the Fremen culture for their own needs, and then the part where he turns said culture into fanatical warriors. He already dreams of what is about to come in the next book.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  Neither of the two uses in Dune (the Butlerian Jihad and Muad'Dib's Jihad) were "casual", they were quite deliberate and significant choices.

The _word_ can't be used casually like that any more. The world has moved on from using the word casually as exotic unfamiliar flavour, without inviting unwelcome ignorant reflexive antagonism. For an example of that, I refer you to your own comment.

samatman 3y ago
The Fremen jihad isn't exotic unfamiliar flavor. It's jihad.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  Whoosh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinctio...
  - samatman 3y ago
    Are you a professional doofus, or is it more of a thing you do online for fun.
- kybernetikos 3y ago
  I assumed he was talking about the Butlerian Jihad, which is an idea that feels particularly fresh and relevant today. "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind"
omnibrain 3y ago
I would not say that Jihad was used casually in Dune. But when you read only the first part it looks like the hero is promoting Jihad as something good. When the truth, considering all parts of this sentence, is way more complex if you read on and even reread it. I think the studio (execs) just were afraid of having a blockbuster with a hero that promotes Jihad.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  > I think the studio (execs) just were afraid of having a blockbuster with a hero that promotes Jihad. Agreed, they will use an different equivalent term such as "holy war" for the reasons given above. The meaning of that fictional cataclysm is not casual, but the word choice in Dune the 1965 novel, using an unfamiliar middle-eastern term for it, I think was. These are separate things, and I refer you again to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinctio...
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > I think the studio (execs) just were afraid of having a blockbuster with a hero that promotes Jihad. Dune has a hero? Paul is a hero?
  - resolutebat 3y ago
    Yes? In the first book, the Harkonnens and the Empire are cartoon character evil and Paul and the Atreides are cartoon character good guys. Things only get more complicated later in the story.
    - int_19h 3y ago
      Paul is already very uncomfortable with the role he has to play in the first book - first the whole part where he and his mother (ab)use a religious prophecy deliberately planted in the Fremen culture for their own needs, and then the part where he turns said culture into fanatical warriors. He already dreams of what is about to come in the next book.
dragonwriter 3y ago
Neither of the two uses in Dune (the Butlerian Jihad and Muad'Dib's Jihad) were "casual", they were quite deliberate and significant choices.