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> Respectfully I think this is reading too deep into it. Herbert borrowed Arabic words and concepts to build a hardy middle-eastern-adjacent culture, it's hardl

> Respectfully I think this is reading too deep into it. Herbert borrowed Arabic words and concepts to build a hardy middle-eastern-adjacent culture, it's hardly the focus of the book. https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-reading-of-appendix-ii-the-religion-of-dune/ https://reactormag.com/the-muslimness-of-dune-a-close-readin... It's more than that.

regentbowerbird 3y ago
Very interesting read, thank you.
dingnuts 3y ago
I always thought the Arabic references in Dune, and also the desert planet that produces the fuel by which commerce operates, was a downright obvious social commentary on oil and the geopolitics at the time the book was published Honestly I always thought the metaphor was borderline heavy handed, to the point that I never continued reading after the first book because the metaphor was boring to me Now I feel positively gaslit. Did I imagine all this?
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  You didn't imagine it, but he didn't draw all his references from the arabian peninsula and islamic culture is more than saudi arabia.
- bertil 3y ago
  No, the reference to Arabic oil is heavy-handed at least, but Frank Herbert has denied this was intentionally just that, without denying there were obvious elements. He’s claimed they represent a wider yearning for freedom.
- philwelch 3y ago
  I’m not sure the timing actually works out for that. Arab oil production was significantly behind the United States and Russia during the Second World War, but represented a major share of oil production by 1973, as seen in the effects of the embargo imposed in response to the Yom Kippur War. Dune was written in the 1950’s, but the geopolitical metaphors are a few decades older than that; the character of Paul Atreides is clearly a parallel to T.E. Lawrence, which places the geopolitical context firmly within the First World War. That’s a different part of the Middle East (the Levant as opposed to the Hejaz and Gulf), a different strategic value relating to long distance travel (the Suez Canal as opposed to oil), and a much older world of competing colonizers. And not to put too fine a point on it, the Ottomans also had a padishah emperor!
- kragen 3y ago
  opec was formed in 01960; dune was published as a serial in 01963 and as a book in 01965, in the usa, by an author from the usa https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc... says that in 01960 the usa produced 8.11 million barrels of oil per day and consumed 9.80, with net imports of 1.61. (not sure what happened to the other 0.08.) net imports had grown dramatically over the previous decade, and oil was already a significant factor in usa political involvement in the middle east, in affairs such as the iranian coup. also, petroleum was a major strategic resource in the second world war; the usa's naval blockade against japanese oil imports is commonly cited as a major factor in japan's decision to attack the usa by 01965 us net imports were up to 2.28 million barrels per day, so it was an issue of growing geopolitical importance, but still only a fraction of the importance opec and oil imports would have in the 01970s
- int_19h 3y ago
  Many of the Arabic words used in the books have a distinctively Francophone flair to them (e.g. "bene" rather than "bani"). Now consider that at the time Herbert worked on this books, Algerian War of Independence was an ongoing anti-colonialist war waged by people who were culturally and linguistically mostly Arabic with a significant Berber element...

regentbowerbird 3y ago

Very interesting read, thank you.

dingnuts 3y ago

I always thought the Arabic references in Dune, and also the desert planet that produces the fuel by which commerce operates, was a downright obvious social commentary on oil and the geopolitics at the time the book was published Honestly I always thought the metaphor was borderline heavy handed, to the point that I never continued reading after the first book because the metaphor was boring to me Now I feel positively gaslit. Did I imagine all this?

empath-nirvana 3y ago
You didn't imagine it, but he didn't draw all his references from the arabian peninsula and islamic culture is more than saudi arabia.
bertil 3y ago
No, the reference to Arabic oil is heavy-handed at least, but Frank Herbert has denied this was intentionally just that, without denying there were obvious elements. He’s claimed they represent a wider yearning for freedom.
philwelch 3y ago
I’m not sure the timing actually works out for that. Arab oil production was significantly behind the United States and Russia during the Second World War, but represented a major share of oil production by 1973, as seen in the effects of the embargo imposed in response to the Yom Kippur War. Dune was written in the 1950’s, but the geopolitical metaphors are a few decades older than that; the character of Paul Atreides is clearly a parallel to T.E. Lawrence, which places the geopolitical context firmly within the First World War. That’s a different part of the Middle East (the Levant as opposed to the Hejaz and Gulf), a different strategic value relating to long distance travel (the Suez Canal as opposed to oil), and a much older world of competing colonizers. And not to put too fine a point on it, the Ottomans also had a padishah emperor!
kragen 3y ago
opec was formed in 01960; dune was published as a serial in 01963 and as a book in 01965, in the usa, by an author from the usa https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc... says that in 01960 the usa produced 8.11 million barrels of oil per day and consumed 9.80, with net imports of 1.61. (not sure what happened to the other 0.08.) net imports had grown dramatically over the previous decade, and oil was already a significant factor in usa political involvement in the middle east, in affairs such as the iranian coup. also, petroleum was a major strategic resource in the second world war; the usa's naval blockade against japanese oil imports is commonly cited as a major factor in japan's decision to attack the usa by 01965 us net imports were up to 2.28 million barrels per day, so it was an issue of growing geopolitical importance, but still only a fraction of the importance opec and oil imports would have in the 01970s
int_19h 3y ago
Many of the Arabic words used in the books have a distinctively Francophone flair to them (e.g. "bene" rather than "bani"). Now consider that at the time Herbert worked on this books, Algerian War of Independence was an ongoing anti-colonialist war waged by people who were culturally and linguistically mostly Arabic with a significant Berber element...