6 ms·

I thought Foundation was great. A direct adaptation of the books would have been terrible, which is why nobody had done it yet. In case it helps, the companion

by bullox 3y ago

I thought Foundation was great. A direct adaptation of the books would have been terrible, which is why nobody had done it yet. In case it helps, the companion podcast gives an episode-by-episode story of the changes - I agree with most of them, but can understand why they're controversial. https://podcasts.apple.com/si/podcast/foundation-the-official-podcast/id1586219793 https://podcasts.apple.com/si/podcast/foundation-the-officia... https://open.spotify.com/show/1SIqjOZcJrJSrpcDjI9fyy https://open.spotify.com/show/1SIqjOZcJrJSrpcDjI9fyy

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
Agree completely. There’s no rule that adaptations have to be 1:1, indeed that’s usually a bad idea.
zitterbewegung 3y ago
After the last two seasons the Empire is the only interesting thing so they might have well just got rid of the parts of the story that was in the book of foundation but that would be two people talking to each other …
nkingsy 3y ago
They butchered the entire terminus plot line by making it a series of badly done, saved by dumb luck action scenes. I enjoyed the other stuff, though it was more “inspired by the foundation universe”. If you’re going to rewrite terminus, give us a hint as to how these people are going to wind up dominating the galaxy technologically.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  I enjoyed what we got in Season 2 of the "Brothers" of the pseudo-religion going out into the galaxy and sharing Terminus technology with already technologically fallen behind worlds. I wouldn't have minded more of that. I think that was at least a small hint as to how Terminus is going to wind up dominating the galaxy technologically.
b112 3y ago
I have a philosophy here. I read a book, and see it on another medium? Well, I pretend it's an account by another person who was there. If 5 people are in a room during a big event, and you interview them, you will get 5 different accounts. Where they were looking when the event happened, what their allegiances are, who their friends are, their background, etc etc all results in a different takeaway. So I'm OK with change. I can live with it. Yet, Foundation IMO was well beyond this degree of change. And very very important things were left out, and could have been told. For example, Asimov constantly described a broken culture of innovation. How many no longer even understood how the machines around them worked, and maintained them by rote. How scientists would merely read old books and papers, and debate that, instead of engaging in new research. This was a strong theme, and a massive reason for the Empire to fall, yet there were only hints of it in the TV series. This could easily have been in the series, but I really don't think many people on staff even read all the books, and it shows.
misnome 3y ago
The empire parts are done well, and a nice solution to not having the same characters around when the time jumps. The production and design is good (at least for space/empire parts). But then they also made other characters move through time so that... because they are special, and only they can save the plan! It _entirely_ inverts (at least what I remember being) the entire point of the book, that individuals aren't uniquely special. It makes "The plan" look like a plan that needed to be actively managed by the uniquely special people involved - the same people, because they travel through time actively managing it - rather than an actual inevitable projection of history. This then completely undercuts anything special about the Mule because, oops, we already gave people superpowers, so now it's just a generic action badass dude we have to fight. At this point you aren't adapting foundation, you are fan-fictioning it. I guess attaching the name gets you money though.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > "The plan" look like a plan that needed to be actively managed by the uniquely special people involved - the same people, because they travel through time actively managing it - rather than an actual inevitable projection of history. It was a rather important, though not initially revealed, point in the original trilogy that the plan was a plan that needed to be actively managed, by uniquely special people (including, but not exclusively, the strongest telepaths that could be found and gathered.) Revealing this before the Mule is a radical change to the structure of the story, sure, moreso than changing the nature of the specialness of the guardians.
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    Right, the radical change is showing the Second Foundation getting built (and it having interesting reasons, in part due to individual mistakes, why it is getting built very slowly in time) not that the Second Foundation exists. It's definitely an interesting storytelling change, and probably for the better. Second Foundation in the books is very much a seat of the pants deus ex machina where Asimov seemed to write himself into a clever puzzle with no easy answer and cleverly solved it "at the last minute" with a retcon, then sort of took another trilogy and a half to complete the retcon and deal with the consequences.
saberience 3y ago
I'm a huge Asimov fan (read the Foundation series multiple times) and I couldn't make it through three episodes of the horrible Apple series. And no, it wasn't because of the changes they made, the basics didn't work either. The adapted story wasn't comppeling, the characters/actors weren't well chosen for their roles, the script wasn't good, basically, every part of it was subpar. It's like it was written and directed by someone who wasn't an Asimov fan and who never read the books. It reminded me of Amazon's horrible Tolkien series (Rings of Power), that is, exceptional special effects, but everything else sucked.
- troupo 3y ago
  I urge you to try and re-read the Foundation series as an Asimov fan. The books are... barely passable. With the exception of the first one. People claiming that series is bad haven't read the books in a long times. There are no characters. There are talking heads that speak at each other. Women are non-existent. Every single person is a knight without fear or reproach. Huge galaxy-spanning powers come and go in lieu of interesting ideas (first the Mule and the R. Daneel). The TV series (at least season 1, haven't seen season 2) is the best that could happen to the books IMO.

by bullox 3y ago

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

Agree completely. There’s no rule that adaptations have to be 1:1, indeed that’s usually a bad idea.

zitterbewegung 3y ago

After the last two seasons the Empire is the only interesting thing so they might have well just got rid of the parts of the story that was in the book of foundation but that would be two people talking to each other …

nkingsy 3y ago

They butchered the entire terminus plot line by making it a series of badly done, saved by dumb luck action scenes. I enjoyed the other stuff, though it was more “inspired by the foundation universe”. If you’re going to rewrite terminus, give us a hint as to how these people are going to wind up dominating the galaxy technologically.

WorldMaker 3y ago
I enjoyed what we got in Season 2 of the "Brothers" of the pseudo-religion going out into the galaxy and sharing Terminus technology with already technologically fallen behind worlds. I wouldn't have minded more of that. I think that was at least a small hint as to how Terminus is going to wind up dominating the galaxy technologically.

b112 3y ago

I have a philosophy here. I read a book, and see it on another medium? Well, I pretend it's an account by another person who was there. If 5 people are in a room during a big event, and you interview them, you will get 5 different accounts. Where they were looking when the event happened, what their allegiances are, who their friends are, their background, etc etc all results in a different takeaway. So I'm OK with change. I can live with it. Yet, Foundation IMO was well beyond this degree of change. And very very important things were left out, and could have been told. For example, Asimov constantly described a broken culture of innovation. How many no longer even understood how the machines around them worked, and maintained them by rote. How scientists would merely read old books and papers, and debate that, instead of engaging in new research. This was a strong theme, and a massive reason for the Empire to fall, yet there were only hints of it in the TV series. This could easily have been in the series, but I really don't think many people on staff even read all the books, and it shows.

misnome 3y ago

The empire parts are done well, and a nice solution to not having the same characters around when the time jumps. The production and design is good (at least for space/empire parts). But then they also made other characters move through time so that... because they are special, and only they can save the plan! It _entirely_ inverts (at least what I remember being) the entire point of the book, that individuals aren't uniquely special. It makes "The plan" look like a plan that needed to be actively managed by the uniquely special people involved - the same people, because they travel through time actively managing it - rather than an actual inevitable projection of history. This then completely undercuts anything special about the Mule because, oops, we already gave people superpowers, so now it's just a generic action badass dude we have to fight. At this point you aren't adapting foundation, you are fan-fictioning it. I guess attaching the name gets you money though.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> "The plan" look like a plan that needed to be actively managed by the uniquely special people involved - the same people, because they travel through time actively managing it - rather than an actual inevitable projection of history. It was a rather important, though not initially revealed, point in the original trilogy that the plan was a plan that needed to be actively managed, by uniquely special people (including, but not exclusively, the strongest telepaths that could be found and gathered.) Revealing this before the Mule is a radical change to the structure of the story, sure, moreso than changing the nature of the specialness of the guardians.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  Right, the radical change is showing the Second Foundation getting built (and it having interesting reasons, in part due to individual mistakes, why it is getting built very slowly in time) not that the Second Foundation exists. It's definitely an interesting storytelling change, and probably for the better. Second Foundation in the books is very much a seat of the pants deus ex machina where Asimov seemed to write himself into a clever puzzle with no easy answer and cleverly solved it "at the last minute" with a retcon, then sort of took another trilogy and a half to complete the retcon and deal with the consequences.

saberience 3y ago

I'm a huge Asimov fan (read the Foundation series multiple times) and I couldn't make it through three episodes of the horrible Apple series. And no, it wasn't because of the changes they made, the basics didn't work either. The adapted story wasn't comppeling, the characters/actors weren't well chosen for their roles, the script wasn't good, basically, every part of it was subpar. It's like it was written and directed by someone who wasn't an Asimov fan and who never read the books. It reminded me of Amazon's horrible Tolkien series (Rings of Power), that is, exceptional special effects, but everything else sucked.

troupo 3y ago
I urge you to try and re-read the Foundation series as an Asimov fan. The books are... barely passable. With the exception of the first one. People claiming that series is bad haven't read the books in a long times. There are no characters. There are talking heads that speak at each other. Women are non-existent. Every single person is a knight without fear or reproach. Huge galaxy-spanning powers come and go in lieu of interesting ideas (first the Mule and the R. Daneel). The TV series (at least season 1, haven't seen season 2) is the best that could happen to the books IMO.