5 ms·

I don't seem capable of actually setting up an account with Heztner and logging in. Their security is so tight, it seems to constantly lock me out. What if I we

I don't seem capable of actually setting up an account with Heztner and logging in. Their security is so tight, it seems to constantly lock me out. What if I were an actual customer? Yikes. Does anyone else have this issue?

david_allison 3y ago
Yep: Dear Mr David Allison After reviewing your updated customer information, we have decided to deactivate your account because of some concerns we have regarding this information. Therefore, we have cancelled all your existing products and orders with us. Best regards Your Hetzner Online Team
- slig 3y ago
  That's terrifying. Did they at least give you time to backup your data?
  - amar0c 3y ago
    Please note that Hetzner does this only in couple cases: a) fake account data ; b) previous strikes (unpaid invoices, abuse etc..) with them ; c) in some cases customer is from country they do not do business with. I bet gazzilion OP above is within a or b
    - thijsvandien 3y ago
      A) No B) No C) No
    - e145bc455f1 3y ago
      I got the same thing. My account was neither fake or had any previous strikes, it was a new account.
    - Joe_Cool 3y ago
      Their ToS also classifies Crypto-Mining, farming or plotting (whatever that is) as grounds for cancellation. Also everything forbidden by German law results in a cancellation. So if you would have for example posted something before 2017 about a state leader that might seem like an insult your server might be gone. ( https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2017-07-26/germany-law-on-insulting-foreign-leaders-abolished/ https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2017-07-26/ger... ) https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/downloads/AGB-en.pdf https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/downloads/AGB-en.pdf Section 8.3
      - creatonez 3y ago
        Make sure you avoid p2p stuff that scans for other servers on the hetzner network, too, even if it's legitimate and not infringing on copyright. They won't ban you right away, but their systems will detect it and give you 24h to confirm you're not infected with malware before shutting down the server. For IPFS or Bittorrent, you should be able to use it for legitimate purposes after blocking the local IPs.
    - Etherlord87 3y ago
      d) the customer is black, romanian or a jew I'm awaiting donwvotes, but honestly, if they don't give you a reason, everything can be one, and refusing a service on arbitrary grounds seems illegal to me :D
      - reddalo 3y ago
        It's a private service; private companies can choose whoever they want to do business with. They're not a public service.
        Etherlord87 3y ago
        Are you sure about that? I know of a precedent in Poland, where a company refused to service (print some kind of invitation cards) some LGBT people, and was punished for it. I imagine the laws in Germany are similar to the laws in Poland in that regard, both countries being in the European Union. In USA, I really doubt any company could refuse to serve black people. Or women. I wonder if the downvoters of my previous message share your (I'd say quite wrong) opinion or there's another reason for the downvotes - I'm up for a discussion!
        reddalo 3y ago
        I don't know about the downvotes, and I'm not a lawyer so take this with a grain of salt, but there's a difference between a service to the public (e.g. a café or a restaurant) and a service such as Hetzner.
        pinkgolem 3y ago
        No there is not, there is a difference between government services and private businesses but all private businesses play by the same rules
        pinkgolem 3y ago
        In Germany you are allowed to discriminate on all not protected factors. protected factors are: race or ethnic background, gender, religion or belief, disability, age, or sexual orientation. belief has a very high bar to meet, you are for example still allowed to discriminate against members of a political party. discriminating based on location matching ip adress or not doing business with certain countrys is fully legal
  - david_allison 3y ago
    I was evaluating them at the time. No data loss
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      Maybe you personally had no data loss, but I believe that the question was the more general "could other users in this situation expect to be able to recover their data?".
- MyFirstSass 3y ago
  What? That sounds extremely unacceptable. Can we get some context please, there must be a reason. Were you able to backup first?
  - david_allison 3y ago
    I created an account to evaluate them on Sun, 18 Jun 2023, 13:25 UTC. I verified my account on Sun, 18 Jun 2023, 13:29. I received the above email entitled 'Rejection of Your account XXXXX' on Mon, 19 Jun 2023, 09:15. I didn't follow up further. No backups required as I hadn't purchased anything
- thijsvandien 3y ago
  Literally this. Their staff won't provide any details, nor even a route towards a solution. When I asked what they suggest doing in this situation, they simply stopped responding.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    Of course they don't. If they tell you why they have banned you, if you were a scammer, you'd know how they caught you and what to do better next time. That's why none of the fraud prevention systems, be they at a tech company or a bank, tell you exactly why you've been banned/denied.
    - thijsvandien 3y ago
      Any somewhat decent company would have an alternative, more rigid verification process to rely on when the basic one is insufficient. It doesn't require telling which part their doubts lie with. They do sometimes ask for an official ID, but apart from that...? Either way their reasoning is flawed. An actual fraudster will simply keep trying and find out themselves, because they have nothing to lose. Therefore it's security through obscurity at best. Meanwhile legitimate customers/prospects suffer.
kobalsky 3y ago
I had the inverse experience. I setup 5 x $220/month servers and I wanted to make sure my payment method worked, contacted support a couple of times, wanted to make a prepayment or something. No dice, they didn't want to take my money until the billing period closed, luckily everything worked fine. It wasn't their cloud offering though, it was for the dedicated servers (Hetzner Robot), I don't know if that makes a difference.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  I didn't ask to "take my money", just gave it to them forcibly by wire transfer, it showed up in my account all right.
thenickdude 3y ago
Yup, I bought a dedicated server because I needed a CPU with AVX2 and VT-x, and it went poof some days later. They didn't even do me the courtesy of emailing me to tell me about it, I had to ask support: > > When I try to log in to my account it tells me that my credentials are invalid, and when I use forgot password it tells me that my account is disabled? >We recently did some routine reviews of our customer accounts. We noticed some suspicious information in your account. >We have some concerns regarding this information and we have decided to close your account. >We do not share details about why certain accounts appear suspicious. Publishing this information would make it easier for people to create fake accounts and abuse our services. I even went through their live-video face verification and passport scan and they didn't budge on this.
- 15457345234 3y ago
  Were you an 'uncomplicated' customer i.e. from a country not associated with tons of online fraud, connecting plainly from a 'normal' ISP account (not a VPN, not using a browser cranked to the gills with privacy plugins) and using a conventional payment method registered to you at your address in the same country you were connecting from etc?
  - thenickdude 3y ago
    Yes. New Zealand.

david_allison 3y ago

Yep: Dear Mr David Allison After reviewing your updated customer information, we have decided to deactivate your account because of some concerns we have regarding this information. Therefore, we have cancelled all your existing products and orders with us. Best regards Your Hetzner Online Team

slig 3y ago
That's terrifying. Did they at least give you time to backup your data?
- amar0c 3y ago
  Please note that Hetzner does this only in couple cases: a) fake account data ; b) previous strikes (unpaid invoices, abuse etc..) with them ; c) in some cases customer is from country they do not do business with. I bet gazzilion OP above is within a or b
  - thijsvandien 3y ago
    A) No B) No C) No
  - e145bc455f1 3y ago
    I got the same thing. My account was neither fake or had any previous strikes, it was a new account.
  - Joe_Cool 3y ago
    Their ToS also classifies Crypto-Mining, farming or plotting (whatever that is) as grounds for cancellation. Also everything forbidden by German law results in a cancellation. So if you would have for example posted something before 2017 about a state leader that might seem like an insult your server might be gone. ( https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2017-07-26/germany-law-on-insulting-foreign-leaders-abolished/ https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2017-07-26/ger... ) https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/downloads/AGB-en.pdf https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/downloads/AGB-en.pdf Section 8.3
    - creatonez 3y ago
      Make sure you avoid p2p stuff that scans for other servers on the hetzner network, too, even if it's legitimate and not infringing on copyright. They won't ban you right away, but their systems will detect it and give you 24h to confirm you're not infected with malware before shutting down the server. For IPFS or Bittorrent, you should be able to use it for legitimate purposes after blocking the local IPs.
  - Etherlord87 3y ago
    d) the customer is black, romanian or a jew I'm awaiting donwvotes, but honestly, if they don't give you a reason, everything can be one, and refusing a service on arbitrary grounds seems illegal to me :D
    - reddalo 3y ago
      It's a private service; private companies can choose whoever they want to do business with. They're not a public service.
      - Etherlord87 3y ago
        Are you sure about that? I know of a precedent in Poland, where a company refused to service (print some kind of invitation cards) some LGBT people, and was punished for it. I imagine the laws in Germany are similar to the laws in Poland in that regard, both countries being in the European Union. In USA, I really doubt any company could refuse to serve black people. Or women. I wonder if the downvoters of my previous message share your (I'd say quite wrong) opinion or there's another reason for the downvotes - I'm up for a discussion!
        reddalo 3y ago
        I don't know about the downvotes, and I'm not a lawyer so take this with a grain of salt, but there's a difference between a service to the public (e.g. a café or a restaurant) and a service such as Hetzner.
        pinkgolem 3y ago
        No there is not, there is a difference between government services and private businesses but all private businesses play by the same rules
        pinkgolem 3y ago
        In Germany you are allowed to discriminate on all not protected factors. protected factors are: race or ethnic background, gender, religion or belief, disability, age, or sexual orientation. belief has a very high bar to meet, you are for example still allowed to discriminate against members of a political party. discriminating based on location matching ip adress or not doing business with certain countrys is fully legal
- david_allison 3y ago
  I was evaluating them at the time. No data loss
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    Maybe you personally had no data loss, but I believe that the question was the more general "could other users in this situation expect to be able to recover their data?".
MyFirstSass 3y ago
What? That sounds extremely unacceptable. Can we get some context please, there must be a reason. Were you able to backup first?
- david_allison 3y ago
  I created an account to evaluate them on Sun, 18 Jun 2023, 13:25 UTC. I verified my account on Sun, 18 Jun 2023, 13:29. I received the above email entitled 'Rejection of Your account XXXXX' on Mon, 19 Jun 2023, 09:15. I didn't follow up further. No backups required as I hadn't purchased anything
thijsvandien 3y ago
Literally this. Their staff won't provide any details, nor even a route towards a solution. When I asked what they suggest doing in this situation, they simply stopped responding.
- sofixa 3y ago
  Of course they don't. If they tell you why they have banned you, if you were a scammer, you'd know how they caught you and what to do better next time. That's why none of the fraud prevention systems, be they at a tech company or a bank, tell you exactly why you've been banned/denied.
  - thijsvandien 3y ago
    Any somewhat decent company would have an alternative, more rigid verification process to rely on when the basic one is insufficient. It doesn't require telling which part their doubts lie with. They do sometimes ask for an official ID, but apart from that...? Either way their reasoning is flawed. An actual fraudster will simply keep trying and find out themselves, because they have nothing to lose. Therefore it's security through obscurity at best. Meanwhile legitimate customers/prospects suffer.

kobalsky 3y ago

I had the inverse experience. I setup 5 x $220/month servers and I wanted to make sure my payment method worked, contacted support a couple of times, wanted to make a prepayment or something. No dice, they didn't want to take my money until the billing period closed, luckily everything worked fine. It wasn't their cloud offering though, it was for the dedicated servers (Hetzner Robot), I don't know if that makes a difference.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
I didn't ask to "take my money", just gave it to them forcibly by wire transfer, it showed up in my account all right.

thenickdude 3y ago

Yup, I bought a dedicated server because I needed a CPU with AVX2 and VT-x, and it went poof some days later. They didn't even do me the courtesy of emailing me to tell me about it, I had to ask support: > > When I try to log in to my account it tells me that my credentials are invalid, and when I use forgot password it tells me that my account is disabled? >We recently did some routine reviews of our customer accounts. We noticed some suspicious information in your account. >We have some concerns regarding this information and we have decided to close your account. >We do not share details about why certain accounts appear suspicious. Publishing this information would make it easier for people to create fake accounts and abuse our services. I even went through their live-video face verification and passport scan and they didn't budge on this.

15457345234 3y ago
Were you an 'uncomplicated' customer i.e. from a country not associated with tons of online fraud, connecting plainly from a 'normal' ISP account (not a VPN, not using a browser cranked to the gills with privacy plugins) and using a conventional payment method registered to you at your address in the same country you were connecting from etc?
- thenickdude 3y ago
  Yes. New Zealand.